Video
U.S. Grant History Chat, Episode 2: Emmanuel Dabney
Transcript
- All right. Hello everybody. This is Nick Sacco at Ulysses S Grant National Historic Site in St. Louis, Missouri. And it is my distinct pleasure today to be speaking with Emmanuel Dabney, Who's a park ranger at Petersburg National Battlefield in Virginia. This is episode two of our US Grant History Chat. So, to kind of kick things off of the Emmanuel here, I think it'd be really interesting to learn more about the operation at Petersburg National Battlefield and perhaps more specifically, you all take care of a Grant's Headquarters at City Point was really neat structure that is on the Battlefield there. So, you tell us a little bit about what you do at Petersburg, Emmanuel and maybe a little bit about Grant's Headquarters as well?
- Sure. So thanks so much for asking me to participate. Our park Petersburg National Military Park when it was first established came about in 1926. So we're, getting long in the tooth now, but came later than some of the other national parks that are large landscapes that people are familiar with. We are a series of battlefields, and I always say if I ever get the chance to rename the park, I'm going to call it Petersburg National Battlefields with an s is we protect sites that cover nine and a half months of military action. The Senate around the city of Petersburg and the control of that city, whether it would remain in Confederate hands, a defended by Robert Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, and whether it would fall to the federal forces under the overall command of Lieutenant General Ulysses S Grant. For many years, the park did not have possession of the site in which Grant had his headquarters and supply depot during the Petersburg campaign. But in the late 1970s, the Eppes family who owned the land that Grant's Headquarters tent, and then later his cabin had been on sold their home and acreage around that house to the National Park Service. So, what had happened kind of in between the war and in between the late 1970s had happened kind of quickly in the summer of 1865 grants headquarters cabin that he had lived in during the winter of 1864 and 1865, had been moved from City Point Hopewell, Virginia to Philadelphia and put in Fairmount Park. This had been orchestrated by the President of the US Christian Commission, George Stewart, and all of the furnishings, as well as the building have been taken apart and shipped and reconstructed there in Philadelphia is this sort of gift to the city. It remained there with no real understanding by anyone in the late 19th, the early 20th century, about how to protect said building. And it didn't take long for it to become victim, to souvenir hunting, vandalism, rot and decay. In 1981, the National Park Service engaged with Fairmount Park and the City of Philadelphia officials about what to do with Grant's Cabin. And they agree that they would willingly sort of let it come back to Virginia. And after an archeological investigation, research investigation through documents, as well as photographs, the cabin was reconstructed in 1983 on its original location.
- Interesting. So Grant's Cabin in Virginia, kind of had the same experience as his log cabin here in Saint Louis, where he built this log cabin when he lived in St. Louis before the Civil War, it got moved around several times. Relic hunters took a lot of different artifacts and items and even parts of the cabin itself and then it was reconstructed later on. So, kind of an interesting parallel with what's going on in Virginia and in his log cabin here in St. Louis. And with the Petersburg Battlefield, you mentioned several battlefields. So I'm thinking of places like the Battle of the Crater is like one of the battles that you talk about as well, in addition to the siege.
- Yes. We have a range of military operations that began sort of June 9th, 1864, then a break of a few days and kicked off in earnest on June 15th, in what grant thought would be a quick assault on Petersburg because Lee's army was not there at the time. Confederate General P Beauregard had a small force of men defending Petersburg on that day, but a variety of things occurred that ended up lasting several more days. And by the afternoon of June 18th, Lee's Army was now joined with Beauregard forces in defending Petersburg. And over this nine and a half month military action, there was a series of battles. Certainly the one that people know us, I think the best for is the Battle of the Crater in July of 1864, but that's the beginning, still eight months of combat to go on. And so we certainly encourage our visitors to visit whatever elements of the battlefields that interest them. But to know that this is a long sustained campaign that had not been kind of seen before in the Eastern Theater. And, we're in a fortunate position right now that hopefully in coming years, as we got a new legislative boundary, we'll be able to add some new lands to the park boundary, and folks will be able to actually walk on those battlefields that we previously had been able to talk about from afar, but not actually walk the ground.
- Very cool. Yeah. We'll have to see what happens with that legislation. Now, I followed your work for a couple of years now online, and I know you've been working on a number of research projects. So for example, you mentioned the Eppes family, I know you've been doing some research on the enslaved people that were owned by the Eppes family. And I know you've been doing some research on the Freedmen's Bureau, the sort of the social organization under the control of the US army during the reconstruction era. So maybe you kind of speak to us a little bit about your research projects and some of your findings.
- Sure. So when I got to Petersburg, which this month I will, it's just amazing. I started 19 years ago as a seasonal employee, still in high school. And, I'm sort of out in the park as I had been even as a child, I grew up around here, I was sort of confronted with something that just didn't make sense. We had this plantation site that there was visible structures for and then there was ample evidence about what happened at that site, through the antebellum war time in post-war owners diaries, that span about 40 years. And yet the only mention really of enslaved people that he owned, or at least he claimed ownership over.
- Sure.
- It was a brief line on our site brochure, which I don't know when that was created, but my guess is sometime around 1981 or 1982. And I just started diving into these diaries because here was this evidence sort of waiting to be mined for more information. And over time, thanks to the developments of the internet. I have been excited and motivated and stayed up late at night and got up early in the morning, go to work, keep digging to find out more about these people. And so Richard Eppes, no one would say that he himself was famous, but he was a very wealthy in locally, in his community. He was well-known. And with that wealth came his inheritance and subsequent purchasing in those enslaved families, having more children to by the summer of 1860, he had 122 enslave people on his plantations and an excess of 3000 acres of land. The park today only owns about 21 acres at City Point. So just a fragment of what was his, nevertheless, the records tell us about all this stuff that's happening both within the household, outside of the household and through work from the works progress administration who interviewed at least one of the formerly enslaved men on episodes plantation right up through modern researchers. And then my own research, I've been able to document at least 10 men who escaped in 1862.
- Wow. Wow
- And joined the US Navy, which was not a discussion point prior to this. And it was kind of hard to figure out the internet opened up that door to that at least two others served, well, one left the Navy and joined the Army, but another one independently just joined the Army in US Colored Troop regimens and sort of, ironic twist of fate for them, they had left this area in 1862 and the regiments are stationed in the area in 1864, 1865. But so it's been exciting through pension research. We've been able to capture these people's stories, the complexity of their stories, other formerly enslaved people who testify on behalf of these men or their widows, which I think opens up this narrative for so long that because so many black people were illiterate prior to the war and during the war and for many years after the war, that we can't know this story and work from many researchers show that's not true, there if you use the pensions, you can get the story. And in that sort of what I have been engaged in doing, in fact, just this morning, I found one of the formerly enslaved men who became Navy person during the war I found his widow had been unable to secure a pension, but there was that evidence about their marriage and about their relationship with other formerly enslaved people that had been owned by the Eppes family. And many of these people though they left the plantation in 1862, they were intermarried with one another. And so they reconstructed their households and freedom down in Hampton Roads area of Virginia and lived next door to each other within a couple of streets from one another, and for the rest of their lives.
- Wow. Wow. So there's, I think this is a wonderful example of a battlefield like Petersburg really going beyond maybe the tactics or strategies or what Grant Lee's Army were doing to really bring out sort of the human element of the battlefield and looking at enslaved people sort of utilizing their own agency to fight for freedom. And in the case of some of these men joining the US Military. So, I think it's really wonderful that research that you're doing and it'll be great for the site moving forward to be able to share more of those stories when people come to see the site. So I think that's great. And then finally, just to kind of wrap things up here with our last question, as you well know, the park recently got involved more deeply with the story of the reconstruction era with the establishment of reconstruction era National Historical Park, what a mouthful, but the new site in Buford, South Carolina. And so I'm curious about your thoughts on the National Park Service, telling the story of reconstruction, what happened in America after the Civil War? What direction do you see that playing out? What do you hope to see out of the park services, interpretive efforts moving forward?
- Well, I definitely am excited for reconstruction era as a new site in the park service. I wish we could create multiple reconstruction areas, whether they be managed by the National Park Service or state park system, is this era, this period, which is of course, much debate about when it started and when it ended. But this period of time definitely is worthy of understanding in different communities, how things played out. And, but I think that, one of the things that is sort of interesting, and it has been interesting to me even before reconstruction era was established, was this notion that the National Park Service didn't have reconstruction sites or places to talk about this. And, sort of my first reaction was always, we got Andrew Johnson's home. And when you think more deeply it's these National Cemeteries come about as a result of war and reconstruction how our people as a whole, the nation as a whole one to make sense out of all of this bloodshed. And what does that mean for former Confederate soldiers bodies? How will the nation deal with those? 'Cause the body is they're still there and communities obviously dealt with them. And in some fairly similar ways, look through Caroline Janney's book on the Ladies' Memorial Associations. But, I think what has been the problem is that our traditional Civil War battlefield sites have struggled with how to balance what they feel like we were mandated to tell these stories about military tactics and battles in generals to what does it mean? And, so we were missing course context and consequences. And we finally now, got the green light to do this, in the early 2000. And it's taken some time for people I think, to know how to do it. And I think it's okay for people to still feel like they need some more information, but it's out there. It may take some efforts to go to the research repository, to talk to people in your community, because a lot of things have been segregated amongst people because black people in my own family have had a very different experience in the 1860s through the 1960s and sort of 100 years of large national strife on the issues of both, race and gender as well as the meaning of this cataclysmic war. And I am excited in that I see most sites are doing more topics, more conversations, looking at the different versions of reconstruction that wars with native American tribes out West, we're not some sort of something to separate from reconstruction. It's just a different version of reconstruction then dealing with sharecropping in the South.
- Yeah. Fully, fully agreed. There's a lot of different directions and there's really stories of reconstruction, not just in the South, but in the North, in the West I mean really everywhere. So it's an exciting time to see more of an interest being taken in reconstruction. And hopefully some of the efforts of the park service will sort of translate over into schools as well, and sort of integrating the school curriculum with what the national parks are doing too. So, there's a lot to be excited about. So I really want to thank Emmanuel for being with us today. Really enjoyed hearing your perspective and yeah, so you you'll be at Petersburg and hopefully when we reopen folks out there can come and check you out in Virginia. And thank you so much Emmanuel.
- Thank you. Have a great day.
- Okay. You too.
- Thanks.
Description
Episode 2 of the U.S. Grant History Chat sees Ranger Nick interviewing Park Ranger Emmanuel Dabney at Petersburg National Battlefield to discuss Ulysses S. Grant, the Siege of Petersburg, and the Reconstruction Era.
Duration
18 minutes, 22 seconds
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