Season 1
1. Ron Davis Senior
Transcript
[START OF TAPE 1]
Antoine Fletcher: All right. This is Antoine Fletcher, Science Communicator of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Today is September 13th, 2021. I'm interviewing for the first time Ron Davis. This interview is taking place at Sugarland's Visitors Center. The interview is sponsored by the National Park Service and is part of the African-American Experience Project, which is in the effort to investigate, research, and educate the public about the stories of African Americans in great Smoky Mountains, National Park and neighboring communities. So for the record, can you state your first and last name, place, and date of birth.
Ron Davis Senior: Okay. Ron Davis, Sr. Born in Knoxville, Tennessee, 1950.
Antoine Fletcher: All right.
Ron Davis Senior: In other words, I'm old. Old man.
Antoine Fletcher: Can you tell me a little bit about where you grew up in Knoxville?
Ron Davis Senior: Yes. I grew up in a small African American community, predominantly African American community in West Knoxville. It's called Beardon or, and our specific neighborhood was called Lyons View, and it was a great place to grow up. Families were close. My dad was scout, master for the young men in the neighborhood. I grew up in scouting, starting in Cub Scouts, went to Boy Scouts, but it was just a great place to grow up. Grew up fishing, hunting, sports, love any type sport and family of seven kids, and our parents, nine people. And we were in a house less than a thousand square foot, total size for nine people. But we were poor, but we were happy. We were a happy family. And so not having the financial resources that many that some did, it didn't matter to us because we had the happiness in our lives.
And so with that, in a nutshell is kind of the root. My mom was a homemaker, basically took care of us as kids, and my dad was the traditional breadwinner of the family. He would, at times, have to work two jobs. We didn't even own a car until I was probably junior high or high school before we owned our first car. My dad used to have to walk to work, but fortunately, he was close enough that it was only about a 30 minute walk for him to get to work every day. My dad was a butler for the Mebane family, and he worked for the same two generations. He worked for two generations of the same family for 62 years. Dad retired at 80 and passed away at 80 years of age. My mom, as I said, the traditional homemaker raised, took care of us at home, took care of the bills. Daddy brought the money in. Mom paid the bills, very, very traditional. And she was the mother hen of the family. She basically was our disciplinarian. Daddy rarely ever spanked us. Mom would tear us up when we deserved it, but that, that's generally our family. But just a great upbringing. Poor but happy is the way I would summarize my childhood.
Antoine Fletcher: And it seems like just listening to you talk that your parents, And your siblings are a big influence on you. So can you talk a little bit about, you talked about growing up hunting and fishing and things such as that nature. So could you kind of talk a little bit about those influences, how your dad influenced you, maybe into that, or your mom influenced you in the hunting and things such as that nature?
Ron Davis Senior: Yeah. That was, mom was not really the outdoor type, but dad was all the way outdoors, like I said, a scout master going as a part of his job for the Mebane family. He would have to go to Elkmont every spring to open up the cabins cabin. And as we got older and big enough so that we could help him, he would take us with him to the cabin, and we would just help with cleaning up and help do whatever we could to help dad get it opened up. But while there in Elkmont, and this would've been in the late 1950s when I was a small child, and it carried over through high school for me. And really the family maintained ownership of the cabin until the early nineties when the park took all the ownership of the cabins back. But going to the Elkmont and being in the mountains was a huge influence on me and my career choice.
Dad during lunch breaks or in the evenings after we would finish work, dad would let us go fish Jake's Creek, which was directly behind the cabin and rock. You could literally just pitch a rock to it. It was that close. And so we would fish the creek. We were right at the end of the road that provided, that was the main thoroughfare through Elkmont and into the residential, the cabin areas. And their cabin was the last cabin at the end of that driveway, at the end of that street. So there was a chain up along the road, and the trail would start right at the front of their cabin that you could hike back into the mountains and into along Jake's Creek. And so we would do some hiking as well.
That was obviously an influence, a huge influence on my career choice. But just hunting, fishing, doing all of those kinds of things. Some of my dad's best friends were into hunting and fishing as well. And when dad wasn't available to take us, some of them would even take, especially my brother and I, and I'll share this with you as well, my brother, I've got a younger brother. He's about four years age different. He pursued a degree in natural resource management as well. And he worked at T.V.A. over 30 years. So Dad not only influenced me as a career path into natural resource management, but a brother as well. And I've got another brother, my oldest brother is a newspaper photographer, retired, but he kind of specialized in wildlife photography. So he would get special assignments and would go out and shoot pictures of birds and wildlife and stuff like that on a contractual basis for the newspaper or for anyone that needed good photography. So it was not only in my life, the influence, but it was also reflected in some of my family members, my siblings as well, that influenced of out of door interest.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah. So you talked about your father working for the Mebane family for two generations of Mebane family.
Ron Davis Senior: The same family.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah, That's quite some time.
Ron Davis Senior: 62 years.
Antoine Fletcher: And when you were younger, did you go out with their family when you were in Elkmont? Did you guys all have to do activities together?
Ron Davis Senior: Well, interesting. It's interesting. In Elkmont, we did not do activities together. We would go up, open the cabin up, get it ready, and then they would come and visit and stay for an extended period of time off and on throughout the summer. So daddy would occasionally be there, but we would open it up in the spring, close it before the cold weather sets in the fall and early winter. But repeat your question again please?
Antoine Fletcher: Just your connection with the actual family as far as, did you guys do activities in Elkmont together?
Ron Davis Senior: Well, I tell you what's interesting. As I said, we did not do the activities in Elkmont together, but my dad's employer, Mr. Mebane, had a yacht. He had about a 45 foot yacht. And my dad would go out when he would go out on the lake, and he would actually go out, spend weekends and stuff like that. And occasionally, Mr. Mebane would invite me to go along on those trips, and we'd go down the lake and would just stay in a cabin, I mean, in a cove area. And there was what's called a dinghy on the back, which is a small boat that we would use for fishing. So we would do that with Mr. Mebane. He also, I became so close to Mr. Mabane that he offered to send me to college. Unfortunately, he passed away the year I graduated from high school in 1967.
Both he and his wife passed away the same year, and there was nowhere in his will or in documentation that he had made that offer to me. And so I wasn't able to take advantage of it. But I did work for Mr. Mebane, and one of my brothers also worked there as well as kids doing yard work, stuff like that. So our relationship, when it wasn't out on the lake in his yacht, our relationship more so was working for them, doing yard work, helping my dad. But Mr. Mebane was basically a mentor for me. He would pass along words of advice, encouragement. He was president of a company called Standard Knitting Mill in Knoxville, which made a, what they call health knit underwear, T-shirts, underwear, stuff like that. What we call Willy Willy's, long Johns for cold-weather wear, stuff like that. He was president of that company, and his wife was his wife's family was owner of a company called White Lily Flower Company. Have y'all ever heard of White Lily Flower?
Antoine Fletcher: I have heard of White Lily.
Ron Davis Senior: Okay. Yeah. You in Chattanooga you would have, yeah. From the, yeah, but his wife's family was J. Allen Smith, and they owned White Lily Flower Company. So basically, Mr. And Mrs. Mebane basically provided encouragement to all of us as kids. And again, offered to even help with my college, but it didn't materialize. But then the Lord blessed me with T.V.A. stepping in and stepping up and paid for eight years of college.
Antoine Fletcher: You talked...
Ron Davis Senior: Eight years of college.
Antoine Fletcher: You talked about, you know, going out with your family and you guys are preparing the cabins. Yes. So was that something that you look forward to because, hey, we're going to get to go out and we're going to be in Elkmont in the woods and things like that?
Ron Davis Senior: We were just elated, excited, two things. One, to be in the mountains to enjoy the cabin, but also to hang out with dad and spend some time with dad. Because with seven kids, my dad had to work a lot. And he of sometimes, oftentimes would work two jobs, his regular job for the Mebane family. But he would occasionally work at a place called Cherokee Country Club in Knoxville, which he would bartend. He would do bartending. He would serve what they call serve parties, which would be serving food, serving drinks at the country club. So there were times where we didn't see our dad a whole lot. So just those opportunities gave us a chance to hang out with him, and he hang out with us as well. So it was really good, really good. The cabin was really nice, very rustic, bigger than where I lived in my house, in our home. So we really look forward to it. It was exciting for us. And then to be out of doors and be able to fish and see animals and stuff like that was just added to the excitement.
Antoine Fletcher: You said each of you pretty much had a job when you guys were preparing the cabin. What was your job when you were preparing this cabin?
Ron Davis Senior: My job was, as much as anything, just cleaning, helping, clean stuff. Because given the cabin would have set up all winter long, we would help out with the cleaning and stuff. And very early on, they did not have refrigerators. So we would have to, we'd ride with dad, he would go down to Gatlinburg and would get ice for the ice box to keep food and stuff, cold. Cause there was no refrigeration and very little electricity back in those early days. Yeah. But my job, and most of the siblings, it was cleaning. Was cleaning.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah. And you say the early days, what year?
Ron Davis Senior: Okay. For me, it was primarily in the late 1950s, all the way through high school, which we didn't go as much. I didn't go as much as I got into my high school years, but elementary school and junior high school years, I would go about every year. So that would be from the late 1950s up through the early to mid 1960s in that timeframe.
Antoine Fletcher: So I know since you spent so much time in Elkmont. The Smokies is known for its fireflies. Synchronized. Fireflies. Do you have any memories from the synchronized? Fireflies?
Ron Davis Senior: Yes, yes. Yes, I do. Although I must say I do have memories, but back in those days, it wasn't a featured activity of the Smokies Given that we had fireflies in Knoxville, where we lived it, it wasn't featured. It wasn't anything that we viewed as totally out of the ordinary. It was, back in those days, it was what we expected. The beauty of it was being out in nature as opposed to being in a neighborhood with a lot of lights and a lot of houses and stuff like that. The real beauty was being, having the rustic, the darkness of with little electricity. And the fireflies then would be just be brighter, would stand out more. That that would be my memory, probably more than anything else. Yeah.
Antoine Fletcher: And I mean, we know you spent a lot of time in Elkmont, but. When you guys were visiting Elkmont, did you go anywhere else in the park?
Ron Davis Senior: Interestingly, we did not. We primarily stayed right in the Elkmont area or Gatlinburg to get supplies. We did not travel a lot, but for us, we were perfectly content to be in Elkmont because it offered literally everything that was appealing to us. The quiet, the mountain stream, the fresh air, the coolness. In Knoxville, it would be 90 degrees, 95 degrees up here in Elkmont. It would be in the seventies, low eighties. And if you got hot, you could go down to the mountain stream, put your feet in and cool off. So really, we just did not have a need to do a whole lot of visiting other parks during those trips. However, in my neighborhood, one of my best friends, his dad would take he and I out camping, and we would come to the Smokies and we would hit some of the camping site in proximity of Gatlinburg. And so I would get to see more of the Smokies during those trips. And I will share this one story with you. My dad taught us how to fly fish with a fly rod as 10, 11, 12 year old kids. And when I would go camping, I was early teenage years, probably at that point, 13, 14, 15, during that time period, junior high school timeframe. And we would fish streams that were in close proximity to the campsite. And there was a time when I hooked a big rainbow trap to the point that there were people standing around on the bank watching me trying to land that fish. It was so big. It was probably 18 inch rainbow. It was huge. Biggest I had ever hooked. Crowds were gathering around because it was near the campsite where we were camping, and there were other people there camping as well. Crowds were standing around watching me see if I could get the fish in. My buddy that was with me. He saw me play the fish. I got it almost all the way in to me. I was going to put a dip net on it, and he got so excited that he wanted to try to grab the fish and knock my fish off the hook, and the fish went swimming out to the stream. I could have killed him. But yeah, I have those kind of memories of just camping, fishing, just, and then in later years, when I started going to Haywood Community College, I was traveling back and forth across the mountain a lot, and going to school in Western North Carolina, in the mountains, in the Waynesville Canton area, we would take field trips. Our forestry class would take field trips to the mountains a lot. So my exposure to actually going into the mountains just really just increased a lot as I got older. And as I got into college it, yeah, it just went up and up and up.
Antoine Fletcher: Seems like you have a lot of memories from the Smokies. That you share. I do some great ones, but going back when you were a kid in Elkmont, if you could revisit one memory, Which one would it be? Tell us about it.
Ron Davis Senior: It would probably be, we celebrated my dad's birthday in Elkmont at the cabin. And my dad was a Navy man. My dad was six one, muscular built strong as an ox. And I had never seen him cry, but dad was so touched by the celebration of his birthday that he cried. And I had never seen that. And I was probably high school age at that point, but I had never seen him cry. And I saw him cry during that occasion, and that just touched my heart. And then I didn't cry, but some of my siblings even started boohooing. And when they saw dad cry, because we just never seen that emotional side of dad like that, because he was very traditional man, manly guy. And we just never saw that in him. So interestingly, even though we would see deer, can't remember seeing any bear, we saw bear signs, we saw droppings, we saw, didn't have 'em back in those early days. But then later, a lot of sign of wild boar, wild hogs saw a lot of that. So that was stand out. But that birthday celebration that we had for dad, and to see him get emotional, that stood out in my memory. Yeah, it really did. Really did.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah. So he definitely,
Ron Davis Senior: Sorry to get emotional. No,
Antoine Fletcher: No, it's okay.
Ron Davis Senior: Sorry.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. And he, it seems like the entire family had this emotional connection to Elkmont. One that was built over time. Ron Davis Senior: Absolutely very strong, strong emotional connection to Elkmont. And it was, for us, it was like being in a wonderland somewhere. It was like being in the best place you could ever want to go to. Just scenic. Beautiful. And as I previously shared those roots and enjoying the beauty of that, the scenery and everything instilled in me that desire to want to have a career doing something in environmental, natural resource, forestry, wildlife related at a young age, I just didn't know I could make a living doing something that I had a passion for, like that. And to get a job at TVA right out of high school in their forestry, fisheries and wildlife division, opened my eyes to an opportunity to have a career in a field that I loved, that I had a passion for. And I shared it in that news, in that article that was previously written. At that point in my life, I would've gone to work at TVA every day with no pay, just to do what I was doing, because I enjoyed it so much. The pay was just nice, but it wasn't necessary. Fortunately, I was still living at home, didn't need the money necessarily. It was spending change, but I would've been to work every day at eight o'clock in the morning just because I had such a passion for the profession, had such a passion for it.
Antoine Fletcher: So just thinking about your family, going to Elkmont, even thinking about now how, you know, see African Americans coming into parks, but not as many as you would think you would see. Absolutely. Back when you guys were preparing the cabins, did you see other African Americans in Elkmont? And in what capacity if you did?
Ron Davis Senior: I don't remember seeing any other African Americans. If I did, and just don't remember. But I think I would've remembered, it would've registered on my brain and probably been locked into part of my brain. But if I did see any and just don't remember, they would've been in the same capacity as my dad. Back in those days, they were butlers maids, that kind of thing. And they would come up and they called that stretch of Elkmont. There's a name for it.
Antoine Fletcher: Was it Millionaires Row?
Ron Davis Senior: Millionaires Row. Millionaires row. And so back in those days for East Tennessee, I didn't know of any other African Americans that could even begin to own. And from a racial perspective, they probably would not have allowed them to own property there. Anyway. As a matter of fact, I was doing a little bit of homework and read where I don't think we were allowed as African Americans to even camp, or they were trying to, back in the forties, set up a campsite that was focused or for African Americans. And that was turned down for racial reasons. So if there were any African Americans in Elkmont during the fifties and early sixties, and even later, they would've been as my dad and as we were more of a butler servant helper capacity there. Yea.
Antoine Fletcher: So as you were saying, you certain capacity and all these memories. So what was it like when you went back to Knoxville and told your friends, and what did you tell your friends about your trips to Elkmont? Yeah,
Ron Davis Senior: Basically they would just see us light up as we were talking to them about those trips because they were so memorable and enjoyable. And every now and then, we would invite a few friends to go up with us for my dad's birthday party. There were a few friends came up for that. So just on special occasions, we would occasionally have a friend come with us, but they were excited. But given that they, early on, they had never seen it. Until you experience it, you can't really appreciate the magnificence of it, and you have to have light that kind of environment. For some people, it's scary to them. They're scared. They're scared of bears, they're scared of this scared of deer, scared of the wildlife. And so for some, it's not appealing to 'em. But for most especially the guys, it is appealing to 'em and some of the ladies as well. But yeah, until they saw it, they really could not appreciate how grand it was and how magnificent it was. Yeah.
Antoine Fletcher: So in 1992, the Mebane cabin was demolished by the US Department of Interior. Yes. Have you revisited the location? In the past or currently anytime? Ron Davis Senio: Yes. Revisited the site probably three or four years ago, probably about four years ago, because I had double knee surgery about three years ago, and I couldn't get around very well. But about four, around four to five years ago did go back to the site. Very fond memories, but disappointment, disappointing that the park, and not to be critical of the park service, the National Park Service and the Smokies, but those cabins were jewels. They were historic. And the fact that they took back the ownership, they retained the ownership of the land, took possession of the cabins, and did not have a solid plan as to what they were going to do with those cabins. When I go back, I feel a sense of disappointment that really, really magnificent, nice cabins were let allowed to just deteriorate. And I even went back and saw the Mebane cabin probably 10 years before it was demolition. And it was beginning, the roof was beginning to cave in. It was beginning just to fall apart. And as I said, just hugely disappointing. And interestingly, the Mebanes had invested thousands of dollars in remodeling the cabin probably 15 years before it was. The ownership went back, went to the, National Park Service and Department of Interior. It didn't have a finished basement in it. They finished the basement, part of the cabin, upgraded the place only to have it deteriorate after ownership was withdrawn. So to be honest with you, it was a disappointment to me to see that cabin and others end up the way they did to be demolitioned. And I understand that there were a few cabins that they had plans to rehab and to remodel. And I don't know whether that was ever done or not. I'm hoping that it was, but I don't remember whether they were or not. But I do know there are a few cabins still there. But that was a disappointment, especially specific to the Mebane cabin that we had such a long history of enjoying and using. And it was just so deeply embedded in our hearts. We were sad, we were saddened. Really sad. I see that. Well, thank you for sharing that. And I'll share this as a side story too. The maid that worked for the Mebane family, she would occasionally come to the cabin with us and she would cook us meals while we were working. And one time she wanted to go snake hunting, and so she went outside snake hunting and found a snake, and she about killed herself, panicking. Cause her snake hunting was a joke. She was just kind of just kidding and found a snake. And she about killed herself trying to get back inside. And interestingly, her name was Florence Middlebrook, and she was the cook on a TV show in Knoxville. The lady that had the show, it was called Mary Starr, s t a r r. And Florence Middlebrook was the cook with Mary Starr, a white lady that was the star of the program. When Florence stopped working on TV with that job, she started working for the Mein family. And so she was kind of famous person, or well known, and a great lady and a phenomenal cook. But it was so funny seeing her snake hunting. That was funny.
Antoine Fletcher: And Florence was African American.
Ron Davis Senior: And yes, she was African American, yes. Okay. And Mary Starr was white, but Florence was African American and a great lady. Great lady.
Antoine Fletcher: So you say that she cooked meals and things like that. So what are some of the things you guys did eat at the cabin?
Ron Davis Senior: Florence literally would cook anything from chicken, fried chicken to spaghetti to just any kind of meals. But a lot of the time it was sandwiches and stuff that was easy to prepare that didn't require a lot of work. But yeah, we got the spectrum. And then sometimes she would cook it at the house where she worked in Knoxville and bring the meals to the cabin with her and would just serve those meals to us there. And those were the real fancy meals where we would get just, but mainly when we were there, she would serve us sandwiches and stuff that was easier and quicker to prepare. Yeah. Yeah.
Antoine Fletcher: Thank you.
Ron Davis Senior: But good memories. Great memories. And Florence was a great person. Great person.
Antoine Fletcher: Yeah. Thank you for that. Thank you. So I kind of want to transition to your college years and in 1967, you started a forestry program at Haywood Technical Institute. Tell me about your first day stepping in the classroom.
Ron Davis Senior: Well, my first day stepping in the classroom was quite interesting because I did not know what to expect. I had never been to the town where the school was, had never heard of it. It's a little town called Clyde, C.L.Y.D.E, Clyde, North Carolina. Never heard of any of those little towns over there. And even though Knoxville's not that big, it's still a couple hundred thousand people compared to where I was going to school with a neighborhood. It was like a little neighborhood in Knoxville. So I really didn't know what to expect and a little bit of anxiety in terms of the racial situation because in the 1960s there were racial riots going on. A lot of overt racism was prevalent, was still going on. And so I did not know what to expect and to step into my classroom for the first time, I saw another African American in my forestry class, and I just lit up. I just lit up, didn't know he was going to be in the class. And as it turns out, he was the nephew of the gentleman that TVA had made arrangements for me to live with. The only other African American that lived in the town of Clyde, North Carolina, TVA had made arrangements for me to room with and just rent a room from him and live there while I was in school. And I don't think he knew that his nephew was going to be in the forestry program because he never said anything to me about it. And for that to happen was God working in mysterious ways in my life, because that was such a great thing for me, especially that he was from that area, a little town next door, bigger town, Waynesville, North Carolina. He knew several of the classmates had gone to high school together. So he already knew several of people in the class. They knew him. He was a football star, a wrestling state, wrestling champion, and very popular. So for me to connect with him made things so much easier for me in terms of being accepted into the neighborhood and into the school. And it was just a blessing. It was just a huge blessing. As it turned out, classmates for the vast, vast majority were good young men.
50 years later to this day, I'm still friends with several of my classmates. We still connect. Some have visited me in where I live on a farm and just outside of Knoxville now, and have been there for the last 20 years. Some have visited me. Those relationships have just lasted in some cases for fif now 50 years, some racism, but very, very little, very few. And I did not experience any real overt racism in terms of name calling and stuff like that, but just more subtle stuff. And I even had an instructor that took my grade off, doc, lowered my grade in a speech class and attributed the speech that I gave in her class to ethnic dialect.
I guess I was talking like a brother. And that impacted my grade on my speech. She and I became good friends because I had a good conversation explaining to her that where I grew up and how I talked was based upon the environment that I grew up in. That was not of my choosing. And it was something that I was not apologetic for. I was not talking street language in my speech. And I think you, both of you have heard enough to know that I'm not speaking street, a lot of street ish stuff, but I just found it interesting that she picked up on ethnic dialect in speech that I was giving. But we became good friends. She better understood after I explained to her the situation. She docked me that one time, but never did again after that in her speech class. And I probably made an A in her class. Yeah. And I remember that very well. I like it was yesterday.
Antoine Fletcher: So during that time, I know you said you experienced some racism, overt racism. Do you think that your time in the Smokies kind of prepared you, especially not seeing as many African Americans in the park did or even your relationship with the Mebane family, did that prepare you for moments like that?
Ron Davis Senior: Yes, yes, yes. And I tell you, the root of my preparation goes back to my dad. Everything seems to circle back to my dad. Some of my dad's best hunting and fishing buddies was a white guy. And his family, he lived in the same neighborhood that my dad grew up in, and his name was Buddy, we called him, his name was William Sterling, we called him Buddy Sterling. But he and my dad were friends as children. And as they got older, they continued to hunt fish together. So he and my dad's, our families would have dinner together, cookouts together. I would go fishing and hunting with him. He would occasionally take some of his boys, some of my brothers would go with me and dad on fishing trips with them. And even our neighborhood though, our neighborhood was predominantly African American, right on the fringe of the neighborhood, there were white families and we had a playground in the heart of the black neighborhood. And ironically and interestingly, the family that my dad worked for purchased the land for that playground. They worked with the city recreation department to get playground equipment. A basketball court set up. That same family donated money and built a community center on that property.
They also made a donation toward a $50,000 fundraiser that I spearheaded to build a pavilion in memory of my father. And they donated the majority of the $50,000 that I was able to raise and built it on that playground that, that family had donated. I say all that to say that white kids from the adjoining areas would come to the playground and play basketball with us and we'd have cookouts. So we got to know some of the folks, some of the white families in the neighborhood by interacting on the playground that the Mebane family and the Jail and Smith family put money into, make all of that happen for us. And that given that I was raised around my daddy's family, friends, family, white family, played sports with white guys and given that and then the Melbane family would go out on outings with them, all of that prepared me for integration.
I was in the 10th grade in high school before I ever went before schools integrated in Knoxville. I was in high school. I had gone to a segregated high school, segregated schools up until high school. And so that made it, that upbringing made it easier for me to assimilate into an integrated society, both in high school and now at Haywood community, at Haywood Technical Institute. And that attending an integrated high school helped me as well. Obviously it really just set the stage to prepare me for going to Haywood. And then my buddy Hillard Gibbs, the guy rented from his nephew, and we became like family. They became my North Carolina family to me because I got close to his parents, his siblings, and to this day Tack. And we call him our real name is Hillard Gibbs. We call him Tack, T A C K. To this day we talk to each other no less than monthly. And he is still like a brother to me to this day, 50, 50 years later. And our career paths paralleled. But like I said, he was huge in helping me adjust to that North Carolina side of the Smoky Mountains and that living environment over there. Oh, he was huge in that.
Antoine Fletcher: So, how many years did you spend at Haywood Technical Institute? Ron Davis Senior: I was there for two years. It was a community college, started in 67, fall of 67 September, and then graduated in May of 69 from Haywood. But they were good years. I learned a lot. It only confirmed that the career path that I had chosen was meant for me. It confirmed that and also it gave me, given that TVA was I was working for TVA in their forestry, fisheries and wildlife program. When I wasn't in school, which would be summers holidays, I'd come home for Thanksgiving during the work week, I would work at TVA Christmas holidays. I would come in, I'd work if it was a TVA work day and not a holiday, I'd go to work at TVA. And so what really helped me a lot, and it helped me on the academic side too. I was doing things at TVA that I was learning about in the classroom at Haywood.
So I was able to see a practical application for the things I was learning in the classroom, which oftentimes isn't the case. You study stuff and you think, will I ever use this? But I was applying a lot of things that I was learning in the classroom on my job. And then subsequent to graduating in 69, I became a crew leader for a forest inventory crew. We would go out and measure timber, measure trees, we'd go to sample points. And I did that for some years, traveled across the whole Tennessee Valley region initially as a crew member, and then after a while as a crew chief measuring timbers. So I had to know how to identify tree's species. I took a dendrology class that's about tree identification. I took what's called forest mensuration, which is about tree measurements at Haywood. So I was learning the stuff that I was doing then and would subsequently do at TVA as a part of my job in 60. In about 71, I asked TVA would they send me to University of Tennessee to work on my bachelor's degree. And they agreed to do that. They unfortunately, Haywood Tech was not an accredited school outside the state of North Carolina. So I had to start all over as a freshman at UT as a true freshman. So it took me four years at UT to get my undergraduate degree finished. But I did and TVA paid for all of my education and I was able to work when I wasn't in school. And it then subsequent to that, they sent me to graduate school to work on a master's program as well. And TVA funded that as well. Wow. I will be totally honest. I did not get my master's degree finished. I did all the coursework. I had a family working a lot focused on my kids. I had two kids at that point, and I did not finish my master's thesis. That's the only thing that kept me from getting my degree. I got all the coursework had planned to try to do a master's thesis research project work related, but I never was able to get that finalized and worked out. But as it turned out, I never saw where not getting my master's finished was a detriment to my career progression because I progressed in TVA. I was pleased with my progression. Very pleased.
Antoine Fletcher: SO, how did you get the position at TVA? You said you were working at TVA when you were at Haywood Technical Institute. So how did you get that position?
Ron Davis Senior: In the summer of 1967, I interviewed with a summer program called Y.O. C. It was called Youth Opportunity Center. And their design was, their intent was to help young, and I think the focus was inner city kids or disadvantaged kids. Their charge and their goal was to help us find summer jobs, to help us get to college in the fall, to make some money, to get to college, to be able to afford college. That following fall. So during my interview for the summer job, and this would've been while I was still in high school, I wasn't even out of high school at that point, I was senior. It was in the spring of the year ahead of my actual graduation when they interviewed me in terms of my interest, everything was out of doors, hunting, fishing, out of door kind of stuff. And again, how the Lord works in mysterious ways. This lady that I was interviewing with through the Youth Opportunity Center said, based upon this interview, there's a potential job for you at TVA in their forestry, fisheries and Wildlife Division in Norris, Tennessee, just outside of Knoxville. And so I went in, did an interview with them, and subsequently got the job. I graduated from TVA on a Friday, May 28th or ninth. I remember the date because May 28th is my birthday. So it was right around my birthday. Graduated Fromt TVA on a Friday, I mean from high school, Beardon High School on a Friday, started work for TVA first thing Monday morning that following Monday, and never stopped working for them from straight out of high school and subsequently on to college and had just a great career with them. Great career.
Antoine Fletcher : So you, you're back outdoors doing what you love. Absolutely. But also you're an African American working in this field. Absolutely. So how did it feel to be an African American working outdoors for tda? What are some of the experiences that you had?
Ron Davis Senior: Yeah, the majority of those experiences were good. The majority, especially working with my coworkers and my peers and even supervisors, higher level people, they tended, because I was an African American in a non-traditional field, Most of them tended to take me under their wings and mentored me. I won't say most several mentored me even with respect to the opportunity to go to college that fall. One of my mentors was our human resources officer, our HR man. And he and another guy in HR pursued the opportunity for me to go to college and study forestry. And they made that offer to me. The vast majority of the people I worked with were in my corner, very supportive. I had so much fun as I previously shared, had I not gotten paid that summer, I would've worked every day. Every day. Subsequent to that first summer when I reached a point in my career where I had to travel for TVA, that's when the racial issues became more prevalent and more of an issue. There were probably a few situations at TVA, but very, very few with coworkers and people that I worked with, especially when I first started, our whole division only had 80 people in it. And the vast majority of those people were in the town of Norris, Tennessee. And all the management supervisory people were in the office in Norris, and they were like family. They treated me like a family member and took me under their wings. And like I said, they mentored me. But then as I moved up in the agency and as I started to travel more, that's when the racism began to rear it ugly head. And it wasn't as much with any of my TVA coworkers, it was with the general public. It was staying in hotels, motels, eating in restaurants. That's where I really experienced that from the standpoint of being turned down, can't stay here. And they would not just say, you can't stay here because you're, you're Black. It was, we're full, we're booked up, no room for you. And what I would do is I would occasionally, once I found a place to stay, I would occasionally go back to that hotel at night and drive by just to see if it was booked up. And rarely, if ever did I see those places that had turned me down that same day, booked up. Usually there was plenty of parking spaces, plenty of rooms available. It was just racism. I've been in situations where I've had to be careful about food that are ordered in restaurants. And I'm talking about, this was in the 19, late sixties, seventies where there was a lot of racial turmoil going on, racial riots going on due to so much just overt racism that we as Blacks were dealing with. And so I had to be really careful and like I said, even in terms of food that I would get at restaurants, because given that I was traveling, I was staying in motels or hotels all the time in travel status, and I was eating in restaurants every meal that I was eating out or I'd get something at a fast food or a grocery store or sandwiches. So I had to be really careful with that. Had a situation where I literally got up and walked out of a restaurant once, and I'll tell you where it was south of Nashville, Tennessee was in a small town called Franklin, Tennessee. And I was in the restaurant having lunch, was with a white coworker of mine. And this Black man came in the front door and he was an employee of the restaurant. He had been cleaning up, came in the front door and one of the waitresses cussed him out, blessed him out in front of all of us, all the guests in the restaurant. And it was only because as a black person, he came in the front door of the restaurant. She said, you supposed to come in the back door. And consequently when, and I mean she said this, she put on a show in front of all the guests that were there. Consequently, I got up and walked out. The guy that was with me that was working with me also got up and left as well because of the humiliation that they put that guy through when all he did was come through the front door of a restaurant with his mop and his bucket with him to come in to do some more cleanup and for him to get blessed out. like that It was a sign of those times. It happened during those times, but it was really sad to see it firsthand. Really sad to see it firsthand. Yeah.
Antoine Fletcher: And yeah, those memories can definitely be tough. What about, can you share some of your fondest memories out of your 39 year career at TVA?
Ron Davis Senior: Yeah. Some of my fondest memories primarily were working with good people. I worked with, when I first started at TVA back in the late sixties, I worked with some of the pioneers in forestry, in natural resource management, in aquatic biology, in fisheries. I worked with some of the pioneers because some of them had started at the beginning or early on in TVA's history TVA was formed in 1933 by an act of Congress, Roosevelt Franklin, Delano Roosevelt, FDR was president at the time and created, they created the agency of Tennessee Valley Authority TVA. And those people that I worked for were some of the best in those fields out there. And they were near their retirement age, late sixties, early seventies. They had been there 30, 35 years, 40 years. So I was able to rub shoulders with and learn from some of the pioneers in the profession. At TVA, our division director, Kenneth Sigworth was from German from Europe, he's European, he was a forester in Europe. He was our division director and he gave me a gift before he retired. And it's called an increment borer And probably not familiar with an increment borer, but it's a thing that you borer into a tree and pull out the core to age a tree and count the growth rings on a tree. Kenneth Sigworth gave me an increment borer in the late 1960s, early 1970s. And I have that increment borer to this day because it meant so much to me that this guy who was basically one of the better foresters in the world, thought enough of me to give me a gift that he had used in his career during his career. And like I said, he was from Europe, he was European, Sigworth. And so the people was huge for me that I work with. Also, TVA gave me opportunities to travel to places that I had never been to. I traveled to Brazil TVA allowed me or sent me to an environmental conference, a worldwide environmental conference, natural resource conference in Sao Paulo, Brazil. And I went there in the early 1990s, late eighties or early nineties. And I've been to Europe, I think that travel Europe, European travel was on me. My wife went to Europe as a part of her job was my wife was dean of students at the University of Tennessee at UT. And she went to Europe on a work for a conference. And I tagged along with her and toured Europe. But fortunately, the opportunity to work for a good agency like TVA provided me the means that was affordable for me to do European travel. But I traveled all over the United States for TVA going to meetings, conferences, even as a way of trying to bring in more African-Americans into the field of natural resources and environmental work. One of the things that TVA was a member of was the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies. And they would send me to those meetings every year. And because there were a few other African-Americans there, three or four, two or three of us, we had the idea of back in the nine mid, probably late 1970s, we had the idea of we need to see more of us in this field, in this profession. We would go to meetings, rarely would there be more than one black person there. And so for me to go to a meeting, and it was Southeast regional meeting, so it was from all over the whole southeast, there'd be two or three of us there as African Americans. So we got together in the late eighties, no, let's see, no late seventies, early eighties, probably early eighties, and started an organization called Minorities in Natural Resources. We started that organization with just a handful of us, and we basically worked under the auspices of the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies. And what we did was we worked with those state and federal agencies that were members of the Southeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies that included every state agency in the southeast and included the Fish and Wildlife Service, TVA, the US Forest Service. All these federal agencies as well as state agencies were member agencies. And we saw it as an opportunity to tap into resources that these agencies could provide, but also jobs that they needed to feel in their age in their respective agencies. So we started this organization in the early 1980s, and would you believe 45 years later, it's still in existence to this day, and you would be shocked at the number of African Americans that are now in the field of natural resource management and environmental work. You would be surprised, we weren't the only organization doing that. There were other similar ones, but we tried to do our share to create an awareness among minorities of the opportunity, job opportunities to pursue this as a career path. And see, I stumbled across it in my interview for a summer job. I stumbled across a job TVA a, that was just the Lord working in mysterious ways. We decided we wanted to design something that would get the word out to people that this is a job opportunity if you have an interest in it. So we were able to work with those state and federal agencies to create that organization and have been successful in bringing increasing awareness of the career path and increasing the number of African Americans and other minorities, Hispanics, other Black and brown people to get in the profession. We recruited Hispanics. It was Black and brown people that we focused on. And now when I hear about the meetings and I see videos of the number of minorities that are going to the Southeast Association meetings, when I hear the numbers that are in some of these agencies, I get excited about it. I will tell you though, a trend line In the sixties and seventies, there were only a handful of us, very few seemed like things kind of skyrocketed in the seventies, eighties, and into the nineties. Part of that was there was our minorities and natural resources program was during the era of, what's the program? Affirmative action. It was during the era of affirmative action where agencies had monies that they set aside to do what we were trying to do in that specific profession. And TVA hired between 19, between 1970 and probably 1985 TVA hired probably in my division of natural of Forestry, fisheries and Wildlife, probably hired 20 African Americans, most of them in professional positions. Went out, recruited, went to Black colleges, Tuskegee schools in Georgia, went to Black schools, recruited these people to come in and work in those professions. And so the numbers just mushroomed, but then affirmative action began to hit all these legal challenges, reverse discrimination, all of that kind of stuff. That program began to be cut back, and I saw the numbers start declining of African Americans and other minorities coming into federal and state agencies. What has sustained it That is slowly but surely getting some more of us in has been the will and certain people, some people just doing the right thing, even without an affirmative action program, it's the right thing to do. So it's still happening, but just not as it was during that affirmative action era in our history. But I still see just quite a few African Americans and Hispanics and others in this profession, and it just does my heart good. You would not believe how after it being just a handful of us, just a very few of us, how it makes my heart feel good to see us represented in all these professions and in all these areas, and in better numbers, far better numbers than we were once upon a time. Yeah.
Antoine Fletcher: And that's really good because there is not just in that profession but coming back to the National Park Service. There's this national debate about African Americans recreating your National Parks, and you seem to spend most of your time not only in the outdoors, but also in the most visited national park. Absolutely. In the United States, absolutely. When it comes to that question of why do African Americans not recreate in National Parks? Well, how do you answer that?
Ron Davis Senior: I would answer that by saying that in two areas. One is back in the days, in our early days, we did the labor work in the fields in timber industry, we did the physical work we did as slaves or as freedmen. We did the hard work. And consequently, you had some young people seeing that and basically saying, I don't want any part of that because they're doing the dirty work, and I don't want to have to do that. I don't want to get in that field and do the dirty work, the hard work. I think that was part of it, seeing examples of us doing the dirty work. But I also think that as opportunities began to open up, we needed to expose our young people to the fact that it's a career path. There are opportunities you can get out and recreate and have a lot of fun, assuming that you like being out of doors. If you have that natural desire and love of just being outside the National Parks is a prime location to get out and enjoy it. And so I think we need to do more of just awareness, just increase awareness among our young people of those opportunities to not only professionally get involved, but recreationally get out there and get involved. And I don't see, I'm seeing more of us as African Americans out there, but still not in the numbers that would be better representative of our numbers in the population in general. And I just think we need to continue to do what we're doing is be role models, increase, get the word out, set examples for our young people, get on tv, get people. And I'm beginning to see that, and I'm sure you are as well. I'm seeing on some of these wildlife programs. You see on Saturdays, Saturday mornings, you're seeing more and more African Americans. There was one about, Ooh baby. Ooh baby, talking about young wildlife. This black lady narrated that. I'm just seeing more and more of that kind of stuff. And I think that's the key is just increase awareness. And again, that's why we did what we did with the minorities and Natural Resources Program. And what you're trying to do with this information that you're gathering will certainly just add to that increased awareness that it is. It's just a huge opportunity that many of us as black and brown people have missed out on. We tend to be more urban oriented, and we need to get out of the city some and get out and enjoy the natural resource and the environment. I'll share this with you. When I graduated from UT in 1975, as a graduation present to myself, my dad and I took a trip. We drove 10,000 miles, 10,000 miles. Gas prices were about 30 cent a gallon back in the day, 1975. We drove from Knoxville Southern route all the way to the west coast, all the way up the west coast, California, Northwest Canada, back across Canada, down into Glacier, Montana, Wyoming, the Badlands. In the Dakotas. My dad and I visited as many National Parks as we could hit for three weeks. And even one point I had a count on the number of parks that we visited and stayed in. But it's just amazing how the Lord does things in your life at those ages and back during that stage of your life that prepares you for the next step that you're not even aware of. But we hit virtually all the major parks, Sequoia Glacier. We hit all the major parks that we could in that 10,000 mile stretch, 10,000 miles.
Antoine Fletcher: Did you revisit the Smokies during that 10,000 miles?
Ron Davis Senior : Not in that trip, but I was so such a regular in the Smokies anyway, that we would catch that just as a part of our normal recreation routine. And really it was an opportunity for me to go to places I had never been before out in the southwest desert, Southwest the West coast, the Northwest Canada, and I'll share this with you. Have either of you ever been to Banff, BANFF
Antoine Fletcher: No, I've heard great things about it.
Ron Davis Senior : I'm going to tell you, if you ever get a chance to go to Banff, please go. Of the 10,000 miles that we drove, Banff is in my top three of parks and beautiful mountainous, scenic. It's glacial. We, they're glacial streams, glacial areas. I saw moose, I saw mountain sheep, mountain goats, just all kind of wildlife, just right along the highways. Banff put it on your list of places to see because like I said, and we hit all those other parks and all those other places. And Banff is in my top three. So 10,000 mile trip.
Antoine Fletcher: 10,000 mile trip.
Ron Davis Senior: 10,000 mile trip.
Antoine Fletcher: So we have went through all this great information. Which is like 10,000 miles. You start as a kid in Elkmont and then you know, moving on to Haywood Technical Institute and then TVA for 30 plus years.
Ron Davis Senior: 38 years.
Antoine Fletcher: Thirty-eight years. And so my last question to you today is, you know, drove into the s Smokies today. Got a little lost. We all do. However, what feeling came back? When you drove, every time you drive into the Smokies, like today, what internal intangible things come back to you?
Ron Davis Senior: Yeah, what comes back to me are just memories. It just brings back memories of the good old days, so to speak. I'm not as excited as I once was because things are so developed, so commercialized. That is, that's a minus for me, the commercialization of things. But I'm looking forward to getting back to Elkmont to make the drive over to Elkmont. Certainly was happy to get out of Gatlinburg and here at Sugarlands and just to be out of such a densely populated, congested area as in Gatlinburg. But it's still all beautiful. The mountains are beautiful. Everything is still scenic. And like I said, this is basically where my roots are. So I'm just kind of going back to my roots, my foundation, and just marveling in a life that the Lord has blessed me with. To see, experience this stuff as a young person and here now in my early seventies to still enjoy it and treasure it as I always have and always will. I think. And just want to see more of us as African Americans take advantage of this opportunity in the beautiful out of doors and just, it is. We would be so much better off as people if we got out of cities and get out into the countryside more often. We would have a better appreciation for our lives and for our surroundings. And the peace that it can bring into your life just to get out and commune with nature is, it's God being in the midst of God. Antoine Fletcher: Well, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you very much my friend. That concludes our interview. Okay.
[END OF TAPE 1]
[END OF INTERVIEW]
The sun started to peak through the clouds of Elkmont’s Millionaire Row as Ron Davis Sr, a native of Knoxville, TN, guided park interviewers to the remnants of a stone chimney. “That’s it, I believe!” Ron exclaimed as the gravel moved under his shoes. In this 2021 interview, Great Smoky Mountains interviewers and Ron Davis Sr. dives into the Davis family annually preparing the Mebane family’s cabin for decades, recreating in the park, and the joy and discrimination that he endured in the region.