Memories Podcast

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Katheryne Dollar, director of the Retired Senior Volunteer Program in association with the Natchitoches Area Action Association arranged interviews with senior citizens around the parish. The interviews were conducted between 1971 and 1974 by David Dollar. Recordings were originally aired on KNOC Radio.

Tags: natchitoches, oral histories, oral history

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May 14, 2026

68. Leatter Dupre Coutee

Transcript

Jim Colley: ... Memories with Leatter Coutee. We'll be back-

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Put Dupré on that. Put Dupré on that.

Jim Colley: All right.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Because you know who my ancestors were.

Jim Colley: We'll be back with her in just a moment after this word from Peoples Bank & Trust.

Good morning again. This is The Memories Program, and we're visiting with Mrs. Coutee. Now what did I leave out of your name that you wanted me to say?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: D-U-P-R-E, with an accent on the E.

Jim Colley: And so people will know who your ancestors were?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: That's right. That's right. That's right.

Jim Colley: We were visiting about Melrose and the Cane River Country, and you were talking about the 24 Mile Ferry.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Yeah, that's right.

Jim Colley: Tell me about that.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Okay, 24 Mile Ferry was just on the other side of JB. And Paul Dupré used to charge 10¢ a fare to go across it.

Jim Colley: Now that was on the Cane River?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Right here. Right there on Cane River. Right there.

Jim Colley: Right here south of Melrose?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Right side, right side next door to JB there. Right there, right there. Right between Colleen and JB.

Jim Colley: So it cost-

Leatter Coutee Dupre: There was a store there, a billiard room there. That's why it's called the B-Yard. They always called the B-Yard. It's a billiard room there too, a store. There was a grist mill, corn mill, you know. And on this side was Paul's uncle. He had a big blacksmith shop. His name was Sobren Dupré. He had a blacksmith shop, he had a sugar mill, and he had cattles, horses, buggies. A buggy in those days was a luxury. That was a luxury. Very few people had buggies in those days.

Jim Colley: Now what time are we talking about?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: We talking way back 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908, all the way down the line.

Jim Colley: So there was a little community here called the Billiard?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: The B-Yard was the store.

Jim Colley: B-Yard. Ah.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: The B-Yard, that's the billiard room. They all used to play. Women didn't go there. Men only went there. But they had the women went in the store part, just separated. And there was a big mansion there. Charles Dupré's mansion was painted white and green, and there were six cedars in front of that house. [inaudible 00:02:10] cedars painted white. The bottom was painted white. Painted white. Then the store. Then the store.

Jim Colley: So that was quite a little community there?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh yes, it was like a small village in a way, because the houses were near together. And [inaudible 00:02:24], just below that, he also had a sugar mill. Made syrup. You cook syrup long because you have sugar. That's the idea. He was down there. And as a child of five years of age, when I'd hear the boat call, I'd grab my grandmother by her hand. She said, "Don't bother me, I'm..." In French, she would say to me, " [foreign language 00:02:45]."

And I would grab her by the hand, and, "Let's go on the bank. Let's go on the bank and see the boat in there. Let's go see it." And she'd go with me, sit on the bank, and we see those big people, those big husky men unload the boat right in front there. [inaudible 00:02:59], right there. The merchant was there.

And the dances used to be at the Perrine's house.

Jim Colley: Now wait a minute, don't get to the dances. Tell me about those boats. Were those the big river steamboats?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh yes. Those boats, these come from New Orleans. They delivered the stuff for the people. They took the cotton from here and brought back the merchandise. That's how they would do.

Jim Colley: And you remember seeing those boats come up here?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh yes, in 1905, sure I do.

Jim Colley: Did they turn around here and go back? Or did they go-

Leatter Coutee Dupre: I don't know. Now that I don't remember.

Jim Colley: You just remember-

Leatter Coutee Dupre: I remember seeing them unload. I used to love to watch them unload. And no matter what my grandmother was doing, I'd bother her. She'd fuss with me, but she would take me. And take me aside. "Let's go see. Let's go see. I say to her." And she'd grab me by the hand, "[inaudible 00:03:46]," said, "[foreign language 00:03:47], you're bothering me," she would say. And we'd go and we'd go.

Jim Colley: But she always went with you.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh, she wouldn't let me go on the bank alone. Oh, no.

Jim Colley: How often did those boats come up from New Orleans?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: I think about once or twice a month. I'm not quite sure.

Jim Colley: So it was a special kind of occasion when they came up?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh, yes. People used to order things from New Orleans, and wait for the boats to come home to get their stuff.

Jim Colley: What would you order from New Orleans?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: I didn't order. The store. We'd get from the store. The stores would order them. But I remember my grandmother telling me, my grandfather, Sobren Dupré used to go very often with the boats, him, and buy things and bring back for his family. A lot of people did that, you know. A lot of them did go back with the boat. A lot of them did. And they'd come back, and a lot of stuff for the family.

Jim Colley: Ms. Coutee, we're going to take a break right now for Peoples Bank & Trust, but we'll be back in just a moment.

This is The Memories Program, and I'm Jim Colley. And we're visiting with Ms. Coutee about Melrose Community down Cane River. What did folks do back in the early 1900s for recreation?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Well, we had dances, private parties, private dances, private parties. Sometimes we'd dance on lemonade and cake. Sometimes we'd have popcorn balls. Sometimes, it was pralines. And during Christmas, it was eggnog.

Jim Colley: Oh, boy.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: They'd dance too. And we used have that. We always had that during Christmas.

Jim Colley: Where were the dances held?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Different place. Different homes. Oh, different homes.

Jim Colley: But always in a home?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: In a home, yes. Different... There were no halls yet then. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Jim Colley: Where were the very best dances held?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: At Dupré's. Dupré, J Dupré. That was the best dances there. It was, that house was enormous house. Way up in the daytime, there was a great big parlor. For dances, they'd move the furniture out, and the dances were there. Cousin Edward used to play the music there. And that was the best dances of all there.

Jim Colley: So that was the top society?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: That was the top society. When you were invited there, you were somebody. Oh, yes.

Jim Colley: Now who was that person, where the dances were held?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Dupré, J Dupré. He was married to Perrine Metoie, the ex-daughter-in-law of [foreign language 00:06:06]. Because her first husband was Garcian. And then he was, Garcian... She was Garcian's third wife. But she was my uncle's second wife, my great uncle's second wife. That's my grandfather's brother.

Jim Colley: I bet she was an interesting person.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: She was. She was a rather strong, masculine woman. Very strong and masculine. And when she spoke, she spoke. And wherever she went, she carried her seven sisters with her.

Jim Colley: Uh-oh.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh, yes. She used to go play for the Cajuns on Little River. She'd play for anybody. She'd come across that river, and in her buggy, and she'd pick Louise, her husband's niece, or me, sometime both of us. We want to go. We'd go with her. And she'd go to the woods, and we'd say to her, "Cousin [inaudible 00:06:54], aren't you afraid?" She said, "Not long, I got my Seven Sisters with me." Oh, she carried a gun, no worries.

Jim Colley: So she was safe with her gun?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: She called it her Seven Sisters.

Jim Colley: And she called that gun her Seven Sisters?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Seven Sisters.

Jim Colley: And that was all she needed?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: That's all she needed. And believe it, nobody didn't monkey with her either. Nobody monkeyed with her. A man, nobody. They didn't monkey. Frankly, a lot of the Caucasians didn't monkey with her either.

Jim Colley: Nobody did.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: No, no, no. Not her, not her brother, not her father.

Jim Colley: Where did the bands come from?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: There were no bands. She played.

Jim Colley: Who played? She played?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: She played.

Jim Colley: On the piano?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: No, no, on the fiddle.

Jim Colley: On the fiddle?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: No, she had a violin, a beautiful violin. I know what they'd got it when her house burned down. She played. And sometimes she'd have somebody accompany with her on the guitar. I don't remember who it was anymore, but she, with her a violin.

Jim Colley: So she hosted the party and she provided the music?

Leatter Coutee Dupre: And she made them behave too.

Jim Colley: She was the bouncer.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: That's it.

Jim Colley: All rolled up into one.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: That's it. My husband was telling me, Manlow tried to behave bad. And Manlow is a big six-footer. She threw him down the steps.

Jim Colley: Whew. That was something else.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: But I remember Zickel and Adams. I think it was Zickel and Adams. Zickel Dupré, a relative, a grand-nephew. And Adams [inaudible 00:08:14] had started to fight. She told them don't fight her ballroom. And they wouldn't listen. So she just took to them, dragged them to the front porch. She knocked their heads together and threw them out.

Jim Colley: Whew. Well, we were glad to visit with you this morning. We're all out of time, but we'll come back and see you. And we thank you for being on The Memories Program.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: Oh, good.

Jim Colley: We'll see you later.

Leatter Coutee Dupre: All right.

Jim Colley interviews Leatter Dupre Coutee about the 24-mile ferry, watching the steamboats unload, the Melrose community, dances at the Dupre’s, the “Seven Sisters”, and her formidable relatives.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, steamboats, melrose, 24 mile ferry

May 7, 2026

67. Joseph Leggett

Transcript

Jim Colley: Good morning. This is Jim Colley. And we're visiting this morning in the home of Mr. Joseph Leggett. Mr. Leggett, we're glad to be here. And we'll be talking with you in just a few moments, after this word from Peoples Bank & Trust, our sponsors. This is The Memories Show. My name is Jim Colley. Mr. Leggett, we're glad to be with you.

Joseph Leggett: I'm glad to have you.

Jim Colley: Thank you. When were you born, sir?

Joseph Leggett: I was born October the 8th, 1899.

Jim Colley: Before the turn of the century.

Joseph Leggett: That's right.

Jim Colley: Where were you born?

Joseph Leggett: At Georgetown, Louisiana in Grant Parish.

Jim Colley: Do you remember much about growing up in Grant Parish?

Joseph Leggett: I remember more than, the real sentimental things to me happened mostly in Caldwell Parish. My father moved up there when I was about three years old, and I lived there till I was almost 10. And then he moved back to Grant when his health began to fail him.

Jim Colley: What do you remember about growing up in Caldwell Parish? What was life like?

Joseph Leggett: Well, I remember the first year it started me to school. I remember that. And we had to walk three miles. And there's a hornet's nest on the side of the road. And the big boys would stir them up there and let them get us little fellas. That first year, I just went what I wanted to. I'd go with the older kids to school, and when I got tired of it, I'd just go home. I wasn't but six years old, but I'd go make that three miles by myself. I didn't go back until the next day.

Jim Colley: What did you think of school?

Joseph Leggett: I just thought it looked more like a playground than anything else to me then, when I was that little, because there wasn't much to the studies, you know. And we always, you seemed to live so far from the school [inaudible 00:02:14]. I didn't ever get to go to school very much up there, because I was closer to the school after I come back to Grant Parish. And I done most of my school days after coming back to Grant.

Jim Colley: Was school just a one-room schoolhouse with one teacher taking care of everybody?

Joseph Leggett: Yes, that's the way it was. I remember now, Miss Boatner, she'd give me the only lick in school that I ever got.

Jim Colley: Is it fair to ask you what you did to get that licking?

Joseph Leggett: Yes, it's plenty fair. I thumped a paper ball at a girl.

Jim Colley: Oh, I bet you gave girls a lot of trouble then, huh?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, I was pretty bad after the girls.

Jim Colley: But the teacher just didn't catch you very often?

Joseph Leggett: That's the only time. That girl, she picked up that paper ball and carried it up there and showed it to her.

Jim Colley: And pointed you out?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, and pointed me out.

Jim Colley: You didn't think-

Joseph Leggett: She just come back there with that big long switch and give me a rap over the back.

Jim Colley: Not much said about it after that though?

Joseph Leggett: No. That's the only trouble I ever had, serious trouble.

Jim Colley: Well, that's not bad at all.

Joseph Leggett: I thought that I had done pretty good. When I was in Caldwell Parish, when I wasn't but six, seven years old, I had me a girlfriend.

Jim Colley: Ah.

Joseph Leggett: And her mama would make her come see me every day.

Jim Colley: Her mother would make her come see you?

Joseph Leggett: No, she'd make her mother bring her to see me every day.

Jim Colley: That's not bad. What did your father do?

Joseph Leggett: He was a farmer.

Jim Colley: Do you remember much about farming?

Joseph Leggett: Well, I remember pretty much about them farming. I didn't do none of it because I was too young. He died when I was 10 years old, and that ended the farming.

Jim Colley: So did you ever spend any time out in the field with him?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, everywhere he went, I was with him. He didn't go nowhere without me.

Jim Colley: What'd you grow, cotton?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, he'd grow cotton and then feed stuff, corn, potatoes, everything like that.

Jim Colley: Did you remember your grandparents? We were talking before the show about your grandparents in the Civil War?

Joseph Leggett: No. It's too bad, I don't remember my grandparents on either side, because I wasn't but 10 years old, as I said. And they was all dead before I remember. But I used to love to set up at night and listen to the tales that my mother told about what went on back there. Now them, they had some days back there. Is it all right to tell what happened back then?

Jim Colley: Yeah, let's hear some of those stories.

Joseph Leggett: Well, sir, my grandfather, he dodged the war, that war. He didn't believe in slavery. He had already freed his slaves, and he wouldn't go to war. And he lived four years in a hollow tree.

Jim Colley: Oh really?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, he did. He lived four years in that hollow tree right across the river from where he lived. And every Saturday evening, he'd come across the river, and he'd shave and clean up. So first one another would come and stay with him, you know. And in that country there was five John Nugent's.

And his nickname was Stickum John. And there was John Buckskin, and John Whistle Britches, and different Johns. I remember Buckskin John, he lived with him a while. And so, one time there was a man living over in that tree with him by the name of Carney. And he had him and his wife, and they were both a young couple. And they come across the river like they always do. And Carney, he shaved, cleaned up first. And after he got through, my grandfather started.

And while he was shaving, they looked and seen the cavalry coming down the road. And he made out like. He did run outside. And my grandmother said, "Oh, don't run, John." Says, "They'll kill you. They're too close." He says, "Well, I can give my partner a change." And he run outside and they hollered, "Halt, halt," and all that kind of stuff.

So Carney, him and his wife had went down on the river bank, right close to the boat. And his wife, she went way around, come down the road. And they was questioning her, said, "You got a husband?" She said, "No," says, "I'm just an orphan girl lives here with these people." But she told my grandmother after they left, said when he heard them hollering, said he just didn't wait for the boat. Said he just rolled over in that river and swum across to their island. That island, I'll tell you, they named it Stickum's Island. And that's what the name of it is today.

Jim Colley: Did the cavalry catch your grandfather at the house?

Joseph Leggett: Yes, they caught him at the house. And he had this horse belonged to his partner. He was a race horse. And he was a trick horse too, and he'd do all kinds of tricks. So he had planned a place in mind up the road to make his getaway. So up about close to Rochelle, he come to this place in the road where it was just a zigzagging. And he had that horse, his head right towards home, and he stuck spurs to him. And he went around the bend so fast, they began to holler up ahead, "Shoot him, shoot him." And his lieutenants, they had a man with every one. His lieutenants said, "Shoot, hell, in damnation. How can I shoot him when I can't get sight of him?"

And they never even went back after him, at all. They just let him go. He went on back, got back home, and my grandmother said that when she seen him coming down the road, said, "That horse didn't look like his four feet ever went to the ground." Said, "It looked like they just stayed up there under his chin." He just come run up to the gate, throwed the reins over the pickets, and going in says, "You got that coffee hot?" She said, "No, I ain't thought about no coffee." He said, "Well, heat it. I ain't going nowhere until I get some coffee."

Jim Colley: He had had enough of an escape right there. Mr. Leggett, we're going to pause just a moment and take a break for Peoples Bank & Trust. But we'll be back with you after this word from our sponsors. This is Jim Colley and we're visiting with Mr. Leggett on The Memories Program. We're looking now at a grocery list that your father used?

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, my father made that-

Speaker 3: That's [inaudible 00:10:39]-

Joseph Leggett: ... grocery bill.

Jim Colley: This was dated, gosh, in 1906. And it's on a piece of old ledger sheet. And we're looking at some grocery prices from back then. Those are really memories now, aren't they?

Joseph Leggett: Yes, they are.

Jim Colley: What's the one you find most interesting on there?

Joseph Leggett: I don't know. I couldn't read it without my glasses. I read with glasses and I can't see it.

Jim Colley: It says here that 27 pounds of bacon sold for $2.10 cents. I can hardly believe that. Here's 19 pounds of bacon for $2.40 cents. Now here are 10 yards of cloth, a dollar. Those are old prices, aren't they?

Joseph Leggett: Yes, that.

Jim Colley: It's hard to remember when they were that. I guess you spent most of your life in Grant Parish?

Joseph Leggett: Most of my life, yes.

Jim Colley: What did you do there?

Joseph Leggett: Well, after I got big enough to work, I worked on the railroad. I went to work on the railroad when I was 14 years old.

Jim Colley: How long did you work for?

Joseph Leggett: I worked about 18 years.

Jim Colley: That's quite a while.

Joseph Leggett: Yeah, up until the war, the second war, when they got to where they didn't use no men much in the second war. They just cut the force down to where we just make about a dollar and a half, a day and a half a week. And I quit the railroad then. And I moved over to Natchitoches Parish, over there in Provençal. That's where my wife's people lived. And from then on, over there I just used my daddy-in-law's team and cut wood and stuff like that for the people.

Jim Colley: We've got time for one last memory, Mr. Leggett. Do you remember anything special about growing up that you want to share with us?

Joseph Leggett: Yes. I'd like to say that my father was a cotton farmer, and I call myself, helping him do everything he done, I went with him. He'd go pick cotton. I'd go down there with him and pick three or four handfuls and put them in his sack. And then I'd get a straddle of that sack and ride it the rest of that half a day.

Jim Colley: That was some help, wasn't it? Riding on that sack.

Joseph Leggett: That's right.

Jim Colley: Mr. Leggett, we've enjoyed visiting with you in your home. We appreciate being here and we thank you for sharing your memories with us. And we hope that some of those folks who are listening to this show will call in and tell us they have some memories to share with us too.

Joseph Leggett: They surely ought to have as good of ones that I have.

Jim Colley: Thank you very much and Peoples Bank & Trust and I thank you for calling in and wanting to share your memories with us. We hope you have a good day.

Jim Colley interviews Joseph Legget about growing up in Caldwell Parish, walking three miles to school, listening to his mother tell stories about his grandfather during the Civil War, his father’s grocery bill, working on the railroad, and helping his father pick cotton.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, caldwell parish, school, civil war stories, natchitoches parish, cotton, grant parish

April 30, 2026

66. John Rubin

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning. My name is David Dollar, and we're glad you've joined us for Memories today. We're going to visit with Mr. John Rubin of Natchitoches, and we'll begin our program right after this message from our sponsor, Peoples Bank and Trust Company. Hello, once again. In case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar. We're going to visit today in the home of Mr. John Rubin, with Mr. John Rubin of Natchitoches. And Mr. Rubin, why don't you start things off for us this morning. Just tell us a little bit of background information about yourself.

John Rubin: Well, what I know, I know the first steamboat come through here.

David Dollar: You saw the first steamboat that came through here?

John Rubin: Went to look at it.

David Dollar:

When did it come through? John Rubin: It come through, I was about five years old.

David Dollar: How old are you now?

John Rubin: I'm 84. I'm 84.

David Dollar: 84 now so you were born in what year to save me from subtraction.

John Rubin: 1892.

David Dollar: 1892. July the 4th.

John Rubin: July the 4th. Oh, I tell you. So you're celebrating almost right in line with the bicentennial this year, huh?

David Dollar: Must be.

John Rubin: Tell me about the first steamboat that you saw. What do you remember?

John Rubin: The first steamboat come through here Georgiana Bass.

David Dollar: Uh-huh.

John Rubin: Jessie Kay Belle and the Muskova. Them the three I saw. You see, I was in Cloutierville then I was living down in Cloutierville-

David Dollar: Right.

John Rubin: ... then. My daddy gave me away when I was about five years old, and I stayed with Dr. Scruggs.

David Dollar: I see.

John Rubin: Came over there in Cloutierville.

David Dollar: What do you remember about the steamboat?

John Rubin: Yeah, I was there in Cloutierville.

David Dollar: What do you remember about it, though? Was it big?

John Rubin: Oh yeah, two-story high. The Roberta was two-story high.

David Dollar: Why did the steamboat decide to come through here then? What was it that brought it through here?

John Rubin: They all loading seed and cotton.

David Dollar: Oh, the cotton. Loading up-

John Rubin: Cotton and seed right down here.

David Dollar: And it was going what to Shreveport or New Orleans there?

John Rubin: Going to Shreveport and New Orleans.

David Dollar: Unloading, all those kinds of things. You say you were living down in Cloutierville. What kind of things did you do when you were growing up?

John Rubin: I just stayed with Dr. Scruggs. I'd hitch up the buggy and drive him to town. If he want to come to town to see a sick person, I'd go with him.

David Dollar: Right. So you were sort of a handyman with him then?

John Rubin: With him, yeah.

David Dollar: Helping the doctor make his rounds and things like that. It's real interesting. Tell me about some of the things. You mentioned you've got a sister that's had a little prominence here lately.

John Rubin: Yeah, my sister, she, called her Clementine Hunter.

David Dollar: And she's still down the river, isn't she?

John Rubin: She's still down Cane River.

David Dollar: Do you remember ever watching her draw or things like that?

John Rubin: No, sir. I never did stay there and watch her draw.

David Dollar: I guess, it was sort of interesting though, looking back on it too.

John Rubin: Oh yes, sir. It was interesting.

David Dollar: Did you ever do anything like that, try to express yourself?

John Rubin: No.

David Dollar: Anything like that? You too busy driving the doctor around, I guess.

John Rubin: That's right.

David Dollar: I see. What were some of the things that you and, well, brothers and sisters, all the folks you grew up with, what were some of the things y'all did around the house?

John Rubin: Mama would ask us to do something. She'd tell us to do something if we wouldn't do it, but she ain't got do us nothing until that night. When that night come, we saw her.

David Dollar: Saved it up for you, huh?

John Rubin: Yeah, she saved up that up for at night.

David Dollar: And then next time-

John Rubin: One night she told me, she said, "John," she said, "you see this sun?" I said, "Yes." She said, "Well, you know what I mean." I said, "I know what you mean." She said, "All right." So I stayed late playing with them boys, and I went on in, knocked at the door. She said, "Who that knocking at my door?" I said, "This your boy." She said, "Oh, no." She said, "That's a man. You can't come in here." I said, "Well, where I'm a sleep, Mama?" She said, "I don't know, under the house. You ain't coming in here." And I didn't get in.

David Dollar: You didn't make it home by sundown, did you?

John Rubin: No, I didn't make it home. She told me. And I was sorry.

David Dollar: I bet, so.

John Rubin: I thought I was done with it, you know. The next day, she got that switch and put on me.

David Dollar: You had forgotten about it and she hadn't.

John Rubin: No, she hadn't.

David Dollar: I guess mamas are like that all over the place.

John Rubin: Right.

David Dollar: Let me interrupt you right here. We need to take a brief commercial. We'll be right back on Memories again. Visiting with Mr. Rubin this morning right after this message from People's Bank, our sponsor. Hello once again, in case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar visiting in the home of Mr. John Rubin today. Mr. Rubin, we were talking about all sorts of things here just now, getting whippings and things like that. Talking earlier, you told me about you had kind of a funny incident about going to school, beginning your education. Why don't you tell us what happened?

John Rubin: Well, I went one day in my life to school and Dr. Scruggs taught me the Bible at night.

David Dollar: So you only went to school one day?

John Rubin: Just one day. That's all.

David Dollar: Well, what was it that made you stop going to school?

John Rubin: Pulling my nose and ears.

David Dollar: What, the teacher?

John Rubin: The teachers did. And I just quit.

David Dollar: She was sitting there messing with you or something. How old were you when you first went?

John Rubin: I was about seven years old.

David Dollar: And just didn't see much sense in that foolishness she had going on, pulling ears and such.

John Rubin: Oh, no.

David Dollar: But you said that you learned to read and write from Dr. Scruggs.

John Rubin: Yeah. From Dr. Scruggs.

David Dollar: The doctor that you were helping. I see. Going back... Well, skipping a few years. What are some things, when did you move to Natchitoches from Cloutierville is what I'm trying to get out.

John Rubin: About '28, 1928.

David Dollar: 1928. What were some of the things you did around here? You lived such a full life?

John Rubin: Just farm that's all.

David Dollar: Just kind of farming around?

John Rubin: Farming around. And I work in the yard around here, 20 yards a week, I'd cut.

David Dollar: My goodness. Had a busy week. Sounds like it.

John Rubin: Oh, yeah. Every week.

David Dollar: Every week.

John Rubin: 20.

David Dollar: 20 all the time. Golly. What are some of the biggest changes you can remember about Natchitoches growing up here and living here for so long?

John Rubin: I worked at the oil mill down here for about five, six months, and I worked at Normal [Inaudible 00:06:59] College.

David Dollar: Oh, you worked at the college too?

John Rubin: Oh, yes.

David Dollar: I guess the college and the town both have really changed a lot since you first moved here.

John Rubin: They changed plenty.

David Dollar: Well, that sounds good. We're getting on a little bit late in the program here. You've got a real special closing memory for us and I want to save some special extra time for that. Found out Mr. Rubin was kind of pulling our leg a minute ago. I asked him if he did anything ways of expressing himself like his sister, Clementine Hunter did, and he said no, but I found out since that he plays a harp. And as his closing memory today, Mr. Rubin's going to give us a treat on the harp like he used to do a while ago. Why don't you go right ahead, introduce it or do whatever you need to do.

MUSIC: (music)

David Dollar: All right. That was one of my favorite closing memories I've ever heard. Mr. Rubin, we thank you for joining us today.

John Rubin: Yes, sir.

David Dollar: Very much. We thank you folks at home for listening. If any of y'all have memories that you'd like to share or someone that you think would be good on the program, why don't you give us a call. We're using the Retired Senior Volunteer Program office and their number is 352-8647. We thank you again for joining us. We thank the Peoples Bank for bringing this program to you.

David Dollar today on Memories visiting with Mr. John Rubin, we thank you for joining us and have a nice day.

John Rubin: Thank you, sir.

David Dollar interviews John Rubin, brother of folk artist Clementine Hunter, about growing up in Cloutierville, watching the riverboats, dropping out of school, and driving for Doctor Scrubbs. At the end, he treats us with some harmonica playing.

Episode Tags: podcast, oral history interview, memories, natchitoches parish, clementine hunter, cloutierville, riverboats, school, driving, harmonica

April 23, 2026

65. John Forshee

Transcript

Hubert Laster: Good morning. This is Hubert Laster and this morning on the Memories Program we're going to be visiting with Mr. John Forshee. We'll be back in just a moment after a word from our sponsors. Again, good morning. Mr. Forshee lives outside of Vowells Mill and out behind his house, to the side of it, he's got a mill, his own mill, and we just missed him making his last batch of cane syrup. Mr. Forshee, how do you do that?

John Forshee: Oh, I just hold the cane up out there and put it in the mill and run it through the mill and then run it through the pan and cook molasses off.

Hubert Laster: You make it sound real easy, but how long does it take you to do that?

John Forshee: Oh, just knowing how much you got. If you ain't got but a little it don't take long to make and got to right mark it take the right mark.

Hubert Laster: I see. I was not expecting when I came out here to see such a, well, it's almost a modern apparatus you have, it's made out of steel and it has electrical motor and everything. I was really expecting a stone wheel almost. But when did you get that mill?

John Forshee: Oh, I got that mill from a fellow out here at Provençal. Bill West gave me that mill and my oldest son, he taken it off down the race line and he fixed it up for to put a motor to it and brought all of it back up here to me. He set it up and I've been around it now for about six or seven years.

Hubert Laster: How long? Who taught you how to make cane syrup?

John Forshee: Well, I've been around it all of my life. I've never run off a gallon of syrup in my life, but I've got a friend down here, Willie Honeycut, he makes it for me every year. Go down there and get him and bring him back up here and he stays with me until we get through. That's the way we worked that.

Hubert Laster: Now you catch all the juice after you squeezed it out of the sugarcane?

John Forshee: Yeah, we catch it out of a barrel up there and empty the mill. Catch the juice.

Hubert Laster: Now what is that second hut that has a, it's a stove and all that. Explain all that to me.

John Forshee: That's a furnace. That's where the evaporator is. That's what makes it syrupy. And whenever the syrup gets cooked over, we just pull out the pan and let it run in a vessel lot and then we can open the little faucet down on it and put the syrup in the bucket or jug or anything you've got you want to put it in, seal it up, then you've got your syrup.

Hubert Laster: And that's all there is to it.

John Forshee: That's all there is to it. Only but one thing to it, now it's a lot of work to it.

Hubert Laster: A lot of work to it.

John Forshee: It's a lot of work to it.

Hubert Laster: I noticed you said that this was going to be the last time you made.

John Forshee: Yeah, this the last time. My Momma, she said she was going to quit me if I didn't quit it.

Hubert Laster: That's your wife?

John Forshee: That's my wife. That won't work.

Hubert Laster: Okay. Your furnace, did you make that furnace yourself?

John Forshee: Yeah, I made all that furnace out of brick and mud.

Hubert Laster: Red clay.

John Forshee: Red clay. That's right.

Hubert Laster: I noticed it was cracked.

John Forshee: Yeah, it hit a bust whenever that fire hit, it did a dry out and one bust open.

Hubert Laster: So every time you make cane syrup you have to?

John Forshee: You've got to remodel the furnace on it, put the pan back on it so it won't get no air in it, no smoke come out from under it.

Hubert Laster: That's all there is to it?

John Forshee: That's all there is to it. Well you get to boiling good, you've got to let it boil back the skim all good and then take the skimming dough and put it in the barrel, and just keep on working that way. Then you get it, get it all skimmed off and then you got syrup up on the front end of your evaporator. Then you let them all, then you-

Hubert Laster: Now, evaporator, that’s-

John Forshee: That's the pan, that's what we call evaporator. That's what we cook it in.

Hubert Laster: Okay. Was there a reason why it had those ridges in it or?

John Forshee: I really can't tell you what them ridges in there. I reckon that's just-

Mrs. Forshee: That's to hold it back in.

John Forshee: That's to hold it back. I reckon whenever you get them syrup cooked and take them all and then it makes it goes around, it comes and goes up and then comes back and just makes it that way.

Mrs. Forshee: And then...

John Forshee: Go ahead.

Mrs. Forshee: That's where the juice goes over around and then at the last run, you know, the waters are coming behind it. You got to stop it up. Keep that. That's to keep the pan from burning.

Hubert Laster: Thank you, Mrs. Forshee. Well, Mr. Forshee. Let's go back a ways. You were born around this area?

John Forshee: Oh yeah. I was born in two and a half miles from here to where I live right now.

Hubert Laster: All right. How many children were in your family?

John Forshee: In mine?

Hubert Laster: Yes, sir.

John Forshee: I had five children. Five boys.

Hubert Laster: You had five boys?

John Forshee: Five boys.

Hubert Laster: And how many did your father have?

John Forshee: I think he had 6. 3, 4 girls. Four girls and three boys, I believe it was.

Hubert Laster: That makes seven.

John Forshee: That makes seven. That's right.

Hubert Laster: Okay. Well now, what do you remember about growing up? What are some of your clearest memories of growing up as a boy?

John Forshee: Oh, I remember I know I had my daddy made me work all the time. I know that. He never did let me quit. Plowing, he turned the plow over to me when I wasn't but about eight or nine years old and he went on back to the house and I finished the job, and that's the way we got by that. Way back, we all had to work. We didn't, wasn't no playing around. That's the way I come up. I was pretty mean back on them in young days, too. I'd get ram scoot around a little bit, just sort of rough, but it never did amount to nothing.

Hubert Laster: Just had a good time.

John Forshee: Just had a good time.

Hubert Laster: Clean fun.

John Forshee: Clean fun.

Hubert Laster: Drink that moonshine.

John Forshee: Yeah, I made a little bit, but I didn't make none to sell. I know I couldn't make enough to sell, I drunk it myself.

Hubert Laster: Oh. Well you wouldn't have made a businessman.

John Forshee: No, I wouldn't had made no, I never could make enough to sell.

Hubert Laster: Well, your father was a farmer.

John Forshee: Oh, yeah. That's all he ever done is farming. Never worked a day on public works in his life. I don't reckon. He did, I never did hear nothing about it.

Hubert Laster: Well y'all, with a large family, how many acres did y'all cultivate each year?

John Forshee: Oh, we worked about 25, 30 acres, something like that. We made our peas and our corn, cotton, sugarcane, made syrup. We got along pretty good. Made our own bread. Didn't have to buy nothing but a little flour and little sugar. Good coffee. That's about what we had to buy.

Hubert Laster: Now your father owned his own land?

John Forshee: Oh, yeah. He owned his own land.

Hubert Laster: How did he get it, or do you know?

John Forshee: Oh, he bought it way back yonder when land is cheap, give about a dollar an acre for it. Way back yonder, you know. That's what he paid for it, a dollar an acre, years ago.

Hubert Laster: Many years ago.

John Forshee: Many years ago. I think it sold back our land, sometimes some four bits an acre. But he paid a dollar an acre. He had 120 acres of it. That's what he had and he divided it up around us boys, three boys.

Hubert Laster: I see. How did you make your living besides farming? Your father and you and your family?

John Forshee: Oh yeah, he made the living of farming. He didn't public work or nothing. He didn't do nothing but farm. Only the little old little place he had, we had.

Hubert Laster: Well how did y'all get money?

John Forshee: Well, he raised that cotton, you know, and he'd sell the cotton and get the money that-a-way. Raised three or four bales of cotton a year, sell that, get the money. We lived on that. My daddy never did borrow nickel of money in his life, I don't reckon, while he lived to make a crop, we didn't have what we've got today.

Hubert Laster: I guess not.

John Forshee: Whenever I come up, you know, I could get a loan and make a crop when I raising my children, you know. I'd go to bank on, I'd get $60 or something like that. Make the $60 do us all the summer, all the year until we made another little crop. We never did.

Hubert Laster: Can't do that anymore.

John Forshee: You can't do that no more. $60 wouldn't go nowhere now.

Hubert Laster: We need to take a break right now for word from our sponsor and we'll be back just a moment.

If you've just joined us, we're visiting with Mr. John Forshee in Vowelles Mill. Well, Mr. Forshee, now, when did you move to where you live now?

John Forshee: I think it was about 1917.

Hubert Laster: You got married.

John Forshee: Got married.

Hubert Laster: And got your own place.

John Forshee: Got my own outfit.

Hubert Laster: You built this house we're in now?

John Forshee: Yep.

Hubert Laster: What did you build this house out of? You know, it's still standing. It looks beautiful.

John Forshee: I built it out of pure lumber.

Hubert Laster: What kind of lumber?

John Forshee: Just sawed one-by-twelves, plank, old-timey stuff. You know what we used to buy to put up a house with? Just plank. Ain't none of this fancy stuff. It's just plain lumber.

Hubert Laster: Is it hardwood?

John Forshee: No, it's pine. Pine lumber.

Hubert Laster: Still pine.

John Forshee: It's pine lumber.

Hubert Laster: I see.

John Forshee: Built some of it out of Sheetrock on the inside of that Sheetrock in there on the inside and all like that.

Hubert Laster: Did you use the hardwood of the pine?

John Forshee: No, it was some hard and some sap mixed. Just mixed the hard and sap together.

Hubert Laster: I noticed out there on your shed that those are wooden shingles.

John Forshee: Yeah, they're wooden shingles.

Hubert Laster: Did you make those?

John Forshee: I made them, too.

Hubert Laster: How do you make shingles?

John Forshee: Oh, you got to rive out the timber and take you a froe. This outfit you call a froe, and then you got a wooden hammer, put them down in an outfit and bump them, you know, and put the froe-ing iron and priers down on it and split out your boards.

Hubert Laster: Now do you adze them down?

John Forshee: No. You just put them on just like you rive them out, get a bunch, tack them on, nail them on the top.

Hubert Laster: Does it leak?

John Forshee: No. Not if you put it on all right, it won't.

Hubert Laster: What makes the best shingles? What kind of wood?

John Forshee: Cypress makes the best shingles when you can get them. Cypress timber, good hard Cypress, you know. That makes the best there is.

Hubert Laster: But you can't find that, though?

John Forshee: You can't find that no more. No other kind now, not around here. Not to make any boards.

Hubert Laster: What other kind of wood can you make shingles out of?

John Forshee: Well, you make it out of pine, good pine, good long leaf pine timber. You know, what we used to have, but we haven't got no more of that, though.

Hubert Laster: What about Hickory?

John Forshee: Oh, you couldn't do that out of Hickory, no oak, either. Oak timbers don't make boards.

Hubert Laster: Okay. How do you make a plank?

John Forshee: Oh, you got to haul the logs to the mill. Run them through the sawmill, you know, slab them off. That's they way you get the lumber.

Hubert Laster: Did you ever split out the log yourself?

John Forshee: No, I can't do that one. I take it to the sawmill, you know, and get it sawed up, make it lumber.

Hubert Laster: It's easier.

John Forshee: It's easier. Oh, yeah. You have to do that to make lumber. Got to take your plank or logs to the mill and saw them. Put them up in lumber. That's the way you can get that.

Hubert Laster: Mr. Forshee, we're running out of time, but I would like to know how you make an Axe handle.

John Forshee: Well, I get an Axe and go to wood and get my timber, bring it to the house, split it like I want it, then I took it out to my vice.

Hubert Laster: What kind of wood?

John Forshee: I use Hickory wood.

Hubert Laster: All right.

John Forshee: Then I took it to my vice and I get my drawing knife. I work her down just like I want it and get my sandpaper and I've fixed it up good like that.

Hubert Laster: Now drawing knife, that has two handles on it?

John Forshee: That's got two handles.

Hubert Laster: Okay.

John Forshee: All right, and then I let her dry a while and I put in my Axe, get me a wedge and put in the end of it and then I got a good handle. I made several ax handles, enjoy it.

Hubert Laster: I see.

John Forshee: I enjoy it when I feel like it.

Hubert Laster: Well, Mr. Forshee, it was very much of a pleasure to visit with you.

John Forshee: Well, I've enjoy your visit with me.

Hubert Laster: If you have any memories that you would like to share, would you please dial 352-8647. The Retired Seniors Volunteer Program will be happy to take your name and number and I'll be out there to visit with you, too. This is Hubert Laster. Wishing you all a very pleasant, good day.

Hubert Laster interviews John Forshee about making cane syrup, farming as a child, raising cotton, building his own house, and making axe handles.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, natchitoches parish, farming, house building, cane syrup

April 16, 2026

64. Jo Bryant Ducaneau pt. 2

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning. This is David Dollar. We're going to have on our Memories program this morning, another visit from Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. We'll be right back to begin our program right after this word from Peoples Bank and Trust Company.

Good morning again. David Dollar here on Memories today with Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. Mrs. Ducaneau, why don't you, since you've visited with us several times here, why don't you just pick up where we left off last time and talk a little bit about some things you've been involved in around here.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Well, I believe I was talking about the outdoor theater. And if my memory serves me right, Thelma Zelenka, who is now Mrs. John Kyser, put on that first outdoor theater. I'm not sure whether it was Midsummer Night's Dream or whether it was just an extravaganza, but I do remember dancing on the lawn there with Carol Flower from Alexandria who went on to Broadway and danced there. She left me in the shade to dance in 1960 exhibition dances for Arthur Murray in San Francisco.

So, I think that settles the outdoor theater business. Then I think of another thing is when my father was on the board of the college, then I think it was called a Normal board then, none of us ever rode at night in a car with a boy. That was just outrageous. You couldn't do that and the college girls couldn't ride in a car anytime at all. So one girl did and she was caught and she was yanked up before the board and they were going to expel her and she cried and she was terribly upset and Daddy said, she said, "I just took one ride in the middle of the day and the sun was shining."

David Dollar: They were going to expel her for just riding in a car?

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: That's right.

David Dollar: My goodness. I wonder how that would go over on campus today.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: I wonder too.

David Dollar: You mentioned, Mrs. Ducaneau, I'm very interested in drama, you mentioned a play that was produced with some folks in town. I think you were in high school here. It was another maybe outdoor play.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: No, that was Ma'ame Pelagie.

David Dollar: That's right.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Kate Chopin's story that Mary Frances Davis, for whom the Davis Theatres are named, dramatized it. I think Leske asked her to dramatize it. And the relatives were in it and it was given in the old Caldwell building. We had no footlights, we had no curtains, we had no nothing.

David Dollar: So it was just early drama here at the school.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Just early drama.

David Dollar: What about when you were in high school?

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Oh, that, yeah, I forgot that. That was the play Haiwatha. And Sanford Roy, who was the president's son, Mr. Roy, was Haiwatha and he learned all the Haiwatha lines, but it took three mini ha-has to learn the lines. And we thought it was a great dramatic scoop to have it on one side of a pond that was where the Teacher's Educational Center is now, I believe, or around there anyway, and have the audience sit across the pond and view the thing by torchlight. Fine. We were getting along very well and daddy sent around word that the play was very pretty, but that they couldn't hear one word because of the frogs were out-chirping us.

David Dollar: My goodness. Mrs. Ducaneau, let me interrupt you right here for a short commercial break from the folks that are bringing you Memories this morning and every morning, Peoples Bank and Trust company. This is David Dollar visiting this morning on Memories again with Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. Mrs. Ducaneau. I would like to hear a little bit about your husband. We heard about your father last time and other folks you've had a lot of fun with around town. Why don't you speak about your husband?

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Well, he's a very unusual person and a very scholarly person and a very versatile person. My father planted the crepe-myrtle trees at the top of the Cane River bank and he planted the live oak trees on the edge of the river. And he put them there because he said, "Maybe nobody would look after them and they would be near the water and they could look after themselves." When we speak of the crepe-myrtle trees being on Front Street, remember that Front Street has several names. Every time it makes an elbow, it changes its name to Jefferson or something else. So other people have planted in other places. [inaudible 00:04:57]

David Dollar: For sure. You were mentioning, I think, something about the library here.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Oh, yes. My husband has had a very extensive library on all sorts of books. He was interested in art and theater and history and music and all sorts of things. He had many first editions and many rare and out of print editions. He talked this over with his very good friend, Colonel Gildersleeve, who was head of ROTC here for several years, and Colonel Gildersleeve urged him to go ahead with his plan to give his books to the library. So after some going back and forth, he talked to Arthur Watson about it and Arthur also urged him. So finally, he did. John Price went back and got the books, about 1500 of them in San Francisco, had them shipped here and given to the library here.

David Dollar: Well, I'm certain they will be made marvelous use of here by the students and many more folks in years to come. Let me ask you this, where did you meet your husband? How did you come about getting together with this man?

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Of course, we both grew up here, but we didn't seem to know one another. But after the war, he and Dr. Hargrove, who was from here and who was his best friend were walking along the street and I passed in a car and waved to them. And he told me this, he said, "Who is that girl?" And Dr. Hargrove said, "Would you like to have a date with her?" And he said, "Yes." He said, "I'll get you one." So he went in his home and telephoned and they came down to my house and that was how I met him.

David Dollar: My goodness. That’s sort of a wave at first sight, you might say. I don't know. Something else you mentioned about your husband had something to do with the football team, I believe

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: He's the oldest living captain of the football team here. That's not much known, but it's a fact.

David Dollar: Does he still enjoy the game and watches...

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Oh, he just loves it. He's just crazy about it. And he never was a TV fan, but when we came here and he couldn't go to the real games, he's become an addict to-

David Dollar: To the television.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: That's right.

David Dollar: Like I'm sure many homes can agree to there around our area. Let me interrupt you one more time, Mrs. Ducaneau. We'll be right back with our closing memory right after this word from Peoples Bank and Trust. As usual, we like to try to close our program with what we like to call our closing memory. Mrs. Ducaneau, why don't you share something with us about that?

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: Recently I had a clipping sent to me from a New Orleans paper. New Orleans used to have two papers, The Times-Picayune and The Democrat, and this was The Democrat, and the clipping said about my husband and his relationship to football. "Mason," that was the coach at that time, "has picked out what he terms a find. Little Ducaneau who weighs 133 pounds. Besides having nerve and speed in abundance, he was what only artists show, and that is brains."

David Dollar: Mrs. Ducaneau, we thank you for joining us this morning. Maybe we can get Mr. Ducaneau in pads and out with the Demons or something for this next year, I guess. Try to help us all get it back together.

Jo Bryant Ducaneau: That would be wonderful.

David Dollar: Thank you very much for joining us again on Memories. You folks at home, if you enjoy the show, talk to the people at Peoples Bank and thank them for bringing it and us to you. If you are interested in becoming involved in the community, if you're over 60, get in touch with the Retired Senior Volunteer Program, your local action agency. Their phone number is 352-8647. We thank you for joining us today on Memories with Ms. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. Join us again. Have a nice week.

In a follow up discussion, David Dollar interviews Jo Bryant Ducaneau about outdoor theater, college standards in the past, her husband, crepe myrtle trees, donating 1,500 books to the library, love at first sight, and football.

Episode Tags: podcast, oral history interview, memories, natchitoches parish, theater, college, crepe myrtle, library

April 9, 2026

63. Jo Bryant Ducaneau pt. 1

Transcript

David Dollar (00:04): This is David Dollar again. Good morning. We're glad you're with us this morning on KNOC and our program, Memories, brought to you by Peoples Bank. We're visiting once again this morning, in case you just joined us, with Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. Mrs. Ducaneau, why don't we maybe pick up kind of where we left off last time and talk a little bit more about early Natchitoches history?

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (00:25): Well, it's something that's very near to my heart is the red bricks on Front Street, is the project of the red bricks on Front Street. Some people want to tear them up and think they're old-fashioned and rough-going and all that. But I have a very soft spot in my heart for those red bricks. In about 1904, or '05, I think it must have been, they were laid down, and at that time they were the only pavement we had and my, we were glad to get them. And there was a celebration. The children in town all got light boxes. That is, you got a shoe box or some other kind of box and cut stars, or holes, or some moons, or holes of some kind, pasted a piece of colored tissue paper behind it and lit a candle.

(01:13): Then you drag this box down the street and it made a very pretty thing. But Auntie got a round hat box and she cut out a desert scene of camels and palm trees on mine. And it was a lovely thing and it won the prize. Auntie got a bone felon from cutting it with a pen knife, but anyway, it was worth it. She was very glad. So, those bricks out very close to my heart and I certainly would hate to see them come down. Besides that, I noticed when I drive to Alexandria and I get onto one of those brick streets down there, I have a feeling of, "Isn't this a lovely street?" And I think Natchitoches ought to preserve those red bricks, I hope we will.

(01:59): At one time, you know there was a controversy about digging them up, and the women from some organization joined hands and strung themselves across the street.

David Dollar (02:08): I remember that, yes, yes.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (02:10): I wasn't here then, but I heard about it.

David Dollar (02:11): We might have to do that again, then. I don't know. I know some of the folks are kind of griping about the bumpiness on there. What about something else about Front Street? You mentioned to me, there were trees along there.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (02:23): Yes. Daddy, was, he loved Natchitoches. He really loved it. And he thought all the time about how he could improve in beautifying Natchitoches. And he got the idea of planting crepe myrtle trees. And so he planted crepe myrtle trees all down Front Street, and he tried to have them all, what was called then, watermelon pink. But I noticed that some died and they've been replaced and so they're not all the same color now, but anyway, that was his dream. And he and Mr. Clarence Purlieux, who is the father of Hertzog Purlieux, now Chairman of the Board of the Peoples Bank, used to sit on a bench in front of the hotel there on Front Street and watch the girls go by. And every time a crepe myrtle tree would sprout a new little sprout, Daddy would jump up and get out his pen knife and cut it all so that it would grow tall and straight.

David Dollar (03:16): That's good. Nice to know about that. Bringing back some other memories that a lot of folks I'm sure can share both in Natchitoches and the, the surrounding area, tell us what you told me about the telephone that you remember.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (03:31): I remember when telephones were put in Natchitoches and we were then living in [inaudible 00:03:37] Tauzin's house. So it was way back yonder in 1903 or four, somewhere along there. And I had to climb on a little stool and tiptoe and crank the phone and shout up into the mouthpiece. And our phone number was 5-3 and I knew the operator, Miss Alma [Kyle 00:03:54], she lived next door to us. And instead of asking for a number, I would ask Miss Alma if I could get such-and-such a person.

David Dollar (04:00): Right, just to ask people on the phone.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (04:03): Very personal.

David Dollar (04:03): That's something, I'll tell you. Tell me about your horse, you mentioned him.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (04:08): Oh, my Nick, my Nick.

David Dollar (04:09): That was something else.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (04:10): I had a great big 16 hand horse, and a sorrel horse, [Niccolo Govanivich 00:04:17] was his name because Daddy bought him from the Govanivich people, who I think owned the oil mill before Daddy did. And that's how he got the name of Niccolo Govanivich. But every evening, Norma and Millie Hill, Mildred now is Mrs. Peyton Cunningham, I'm sure you all know her, would get on old Nick and the three of us would ride. And I wish I had a picture of that, but I don't.

David Dollar (04:43): I bet that was a sight. Let us take a short break right here at this point for a commercial message from our friends at Peoples Bank. [silence 00:04:54].

(04:56): This is David Dollar on Memories. We're visiting again with Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau. Mrs. Ducaneau, why don't you tell us some of the memories that you had about Northwestern when you were involved here. Or, I suppose it was, what, State Normal then, was that it?

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (05:15): Well, you know, in those days, people didn't have many automobiles. In fact, the first automobile I remember in town belonged to Mr. Phanor Breazeale. It was a Model T. And we used to go tearing up and down Front Street in it. And after [Bodhi 00:05:35] Hill, I don't know whether the Bodhi Hill still exists or not.

David Dollar (05:37): I don't know.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (05:37): It was the first hill out of Natchitoches going toward Grand Encore. And we'd get almost to the top of the hill and the engine would die. You had to crank it. That's the only way. So we would get out and try to crank, and we couldn't, and then we would all push to the top of the hill, and then it would slide down the other side. And of course, by releasing the brake we could start again. That was very exciting. So everybody walked to school and you walked home to lunch.

David Dollar (06:09): Right.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (06:09): Or you ran. If the boy that you was with was a good runner, you ran with him. So that kept us in good trim. At that time, Mr. Aswell was the President. And not too long ago, someone wrote a thesis on his son, James Aswell, who became a writer. I don't know who wrote the thesis, and I don't know who corrected and accepted the thesis, but I don't believe either one of them did their research or homework well, because the thesis stated that Mr. Aswell had one child. Well, he didn't, he had two. He had a girl, Corrine, who married the son of a Kentucky Senator and lived in Kentucky for many years, still lives there, and was postmistress in Georgetown, Kentucky. I think that that should be straightened out because many people in town who knew Corrine, who knew that Mr. Aswell had two children because the Aswells lived here after he had gone on to Congress. And I would like to get that straightened out. I'm sure I'm right on that. They were my cousins and she was my best friend.

David Dollar (07:27): So I guess there's no doubt about her being one of the children if she was your cousin. That's good. You mentioned something about your participation in some drama here. With the outbreak of the outdoor drama now Natchitoches LODA coming around. What? Give us a little background on that.

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (07:44): Yeah. Well, there was some discussion as to what was the first outdoor drama here, and it was generally thought that it was a story of Kate Chopin's, which was dramatized by Mary Frances Davis. Mary Francis Davis was then the dramatic director here at the Normal, it was then, and she made Ma’ame Pélagie into a play and she directed it and had as many of Kate Chopin's relatives in it as she could get. Catherine Breazeale was in it, I think. And Marie Breazeale was in it. And Doris Henry Pearson, Dr. Pearson's wife was in it. And let's see, who else? Mr. McGinty, who was later on a president here of the college and John Pettis, who was in the registrar's office, I believe. And I was in it, though I'm not a relative. But anyway, we functioned without footlights, without curtains, without anything. And we functioned indoors in the Carwell Building. And the reason I remembered so distinctly was that our footlights, all of our lights, were candles. And at the end, when I had to die in front of the footlights, Marie forgot to take off the candles and there I was.

David Dollar (09:12): My goodness, a struggling actress. We'd like to close our program with a closing memory each time, if we can. And we'll come back to Mrs. Ducournau's closing memory on this program right after our commercial message from Peoples Bank. [silence 00:09:27] This is David Dollar on Memories today, visiting again with Mrs. Jo Bryan Ducournau. Ms. Ducournau, why don't you give us your closing memory on the program today?

Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau (09:40): Well, in thinking of Kate Chopin, a relative of hers here is Arthur Watson and his father stands out in my memory as a very important person. My father was a widow and a lot of dancing and things like entertaining went on in my home. His crowd used to come down and dance quite a lot at night. And Mr. Arthur, who was a beautiful dancer, taught me how to do the Gaby Glide, the Hesitation Waltz, and the Boston Dip.

David Dollar (10:15): Not exactly the dances you'll see, I guess, on American Bandstand today, but very definitely some of our memories. Mrs. Ducaneau we thank you for joining us today.

David Dollar sits down with Mrs. Jo Bryant Ducaneau and talks about her memories of growing up in Natchitoches including the importance of the red bricks on Front Street and participating in outdoor theater.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, natchitoches parish, front street, outdoor theater

April 2, 2026

62. J.K. Foster

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning. This is David Dollar, and we're glad you've joined us for Memories today. We're going to be visiting with Mr. J.K Foster, and we'll be back to start our program right after this message from our sponsor, Peoples Bank and Trust Company.

Hello once again. In case you're just joining us, we're glad you're here. David Dollar this morning on Memories. We're going to visit in the home today of Mr. J.K Foster. Mr. Foster, we thank you for having us in your home today, and going to open up and share some memories with us, I think.

J. K. Foster: Thank you for being here. I'm proud that you are here.

David Dollar: Why don't we start things off by you telling us just a little bit about yourself, little background and such.

J. K. Foster: Well, I was born at the little village of Provencal in 1891, March the 5th, 4:20 AM in the morning.

David Dollar: My goodness, sounds like you remember that. You're pretty sure about it, I think.

J. K. Foster: I got my mother's word on that.

David Dollar: Okay. She ought to know, I guess.

J. K. Foster: I suppose so.

David Dollar: Okay.

J. K. Foster: And when I was six weeks old, my father moved out in the country about a mile and a quarter from the little village of Provencal on a homestead. And there he raised his family, and there was 13 of us children, eight boys and five girls, and I'm the oldest boy that was living. And we was poor folks, and we had to work. So I began to drive mules when I was 12 years old.

David Dollar: You were 12 when you started driving mules. What was your dad doing at this time to try to make a living?

J. K. Foster: My dad, he'd worked some at the public works and he farmed some.

David Dollar: Mm-hmm.

J. K. Foster: Just betwixt and between.

David Dollar: Kind of whatever he could to make a little money, huh?

J. K. Foster: That's right. That's right. That's right. And when I was small, I had two brothers right under me. There were just 21 months' difference in each and every one of us, but I was the oldest. And we had certain things that we had to do-

David Dollar: Chores around the house and things to help out?

J. K. Foster: That's it. Mother and Daddy did teach us to work, and we had those chores to make each and every day. But after that was done, why, we was free to do like we wanted to, and me and my two brothers next to me, we were mad about rabbit hunting.

David Dollar: Rabbit hunting?

J. K. Foster: Yeah.

David Dollar: I imagine that's a pretty good neck of the woods to be in for rabbit hunting.

J. K. Foster: It was. And my father had a little cur dog, we called him Doc.

David Dollar: Doc.

J. K. Foster: And he had quite a lot of sense. Us kids would take him, go out in the woods, and he would run the rabbits. My daddy could go out in the woods with him and just hiss him out and he'd hunt squirrels.

David Dollar: My goodness.

J. K. Foster: And he could go out in the woods and say, "Sooey," and he wouldn't hunt nothing but hogs. He was a smart dog, he was a little dog, but he was a smart dog.

David Dollar: Sounds like it.

J. K. Foster: And he lived to be about 18 years old.

David Dollar: Sounds smarter than most folks, I guess.

J. K. Foster: Yeah.

David Dollar: Goodness gracious.

J. K. Foster: He was a smart dog, no question about that. When we got big enough to handle a hoe, we had the chores to do in the field and in the garden and keep the grass down. Father done the plowing until I was, oh, I reckon I was about eight years old. I'd plow something then. And we scuffled along there and made a living. Of course, we made the most of our food. Well, we raised it,

David Dollar: Raised most all of it.

J. K. Foster: We had hogs and we had cows, and we had plenty of milk and water and we had plenty of meat and we could raise greens and peas.

David Dollar: For a family of 13 kids and a mom and daddy, I bet you all had to raise a bunch of greens and peas and such to keep food on the table for everybody.

J. K. Foster: It took quite a lot of it, because we was all big eaters.

David Dollar: Growing kids,

J. K. Foster: Growing kids, and it did take lots of food to keep us going.

David Dollar: Of course there was none of this not liking some of the food that's on the table like you see a lot of today too, in a lot of families, I bet. Whatever was there, I bet you were glad to eat.

J. K. Foster: That's right. We had appetite for whatever was put on the table.

David Dollar: Whatever was put there.

J. K. Foster: That's right. That's no question about that.

David Dollar: Yeah. Well, what about going to school? Did you have the opportunity back in the 1890s or so to do that, or the turn of the century?

J. K. Foster: Well, it was very, very little.

David Dollar: Mm-hmm.

J. K. Foster: When I was six years old, I went to school eight weeks, the man by the name of Rusko.

David Dollar: Rusko, down in Provencal?

J. K. Foster: Yes, in Provencal. And Rusko was just starting out in life. He was a young man, but he educated himself and he used to be a permanent lawyer right here in town.

David Dollar: Well, I'll be. And was teaching school there at first?

J. K. Foster: He was teaching on the beginning, he taught school to supply his needs to college.

David Dollar: Well, I'll be.

J. K. Foster: And he made a remarkable lawyer right here in Natchitoches. He passed away a few years ago, not many years ago, but a few years ago. But our schooling was very limited. Sometimes we didn't have but six weeks schooling the whole 12 months.

David Dollar: Goodness. Were most of the kids needed back on the farm, or was it just that you couldn't get teachers, or what was the situation? Why was there so little-

J. K. Foster: Financial affairs.

David Dollar: Financial, okay, I hear you.

J. K. Foster: They just didn't have the money to-

David Dollar: Couldn't pay the teacher any longer than that.

J. K. Foster: They couldn't pay the teacher any longer. It was all in financial affairs.

David Dollar: Yeah.

J. K. Foster: Because the mothers and fathers couldn't spare the children, if they would have had the school we went to.

David Dollar: Mm-hmm.

J. K. Foster: But we didn't have the school to go to. Well, I come up with a very little education. Well, when I was 12 years old, I commenced to work. But I didn't get any chance for any more school because somebody had to make a living. There's too many others.

David Dollar: You're right, you're right.

J. K. Foster: I worked.

David Dollar: Let me interrupt you right here. We need to take a short commercial. We'll come back and pick up where we left off. I'm interested to continue this conversation. We'll be right back with Mr. J.K. Foster right after this message from our sponsor, Peoples Bank and Trust Company.

In case you've just joined us, this is David Dollar on Memories, this morning visiting with Mr. J.K Foster. With Mr. Foster we've been talking about growing up down in Provencal and working at a very early age and not being able to attend much school for various reasons, and his family in the shape that most of the families were around there, poor but working and having enough food on the table for the family. Why don't we pick up there, Mr. Foster, and you fill us in on a little more about working in the family and such.

J. K. Foster: Well, there's one thing I would like to mention that you very seldom ever know of happening in one family. I had two deaf and dumb brothers and two deaf and dumb sisters.

David Dollar: Well, I'll be. No, you're right, you don't hear much about that.

J. K. Foster: No, sir, I said that don't occur very often. And they got their education in Baton Rouge. And one of the girls is deceased and one of the boys is deceased, and the other two is yet living.

David Dollar: Still living. You say they received their education in Baton Rouge?

J. K. Foster: Yes, sir.

David Dollar: How did your family go about that?

J. K. Foster: Well, that was a government affair. The state took care of that.

David Dollar: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

J. K. Foster: It was free. All that cost Mother and Father was the transportation getting them down there and their clothing. The rest of it is paid by the state, which was a state school.

David Dollar: Uh-huh. About when was this, and how old were they and how old were you when all this was going on?

J. K. Foster: Well, that'll take the right smart figuring, because they started when I believe one of them was seven and the other one was nine. And that made me about, just offhand speaking, must have made me about 18 years old, 18, 19, somewhere along there.

David Dollar: Were all four of the kids born when they entered the school? Or were several in the program and then another child came along, or was the family able to send all four children down at the same time? Or was it at different times?

J. K. Foster: It was at different times, because the two girls, there was only a couple of years' difference in the two girls, and they started together. Well, then right smart later on, the two boys was born, and they was born far enough apart though that one of them started the school ahead of the other, but they both finally went to the school in Baton Rouge.

David Dollar: And received the training and education for the dumb and the deaf?

J. K. Foster: That's correct, that's correct.

David Dollar: That's really something. In all the talking with the other folks on Memories, we'd never heard about educational opportunities for the disabled or the disadvantaged as early as that, near the turn of the century or so. I guess I was thinking more that that was a very new type thing existing somewhere around World War II, I guess.

J. K. Foster: Well, I don't know how old that institution is, but they did take care of my sisters and brothers.

David Dollar: Well, I'm glad you brought that up. I sure learned something today. Mr. Foster, we're just about out of time, and we'd like to try to close our show with some very special memory or something you'd like to share with us. Why don't you share your closing memory with us right now and we'll bring it to a close?

J. K. Foster: Well, there's one great mistake that I made in life and I've always regretted it. I just waited too long to surrender my life to the Lord. I was 33 years old when I surrendered my life to the Lord.

David Dollar: Where did this occur?

J. K. Foster: In Provencal, in a Baptist church in Provencal.

David Dollar: And I guess a pretty big change in your life came about, huh?

J. K. Foster: Why, I guess so, because I was married and had two or three children, and my wife told me three or four months after I was converted that it was just like living with a new man.

David Dollar: A different person, huh?

J. K. Foster: Altogether.

David Dollar: I think that's kind of what the Bible talks about, isn't it? Becoming new folks.

J. K. Foster: That's correct.

David Dollar: Different people altogether.

J. K. Foster: That's correct.

David Dollar: Well, we sure thank you for sharing that with us and all these memories you've given us today, Mr. Foster. It was quite an opportunity for us to come into your home, and we thank you for it.

J. K. Foster: Well, I appreciate you all coming and I appreciate being able to make this statement.

David Dollar: Thank you, sir. If any of you folks at home have got some memories you'd like to share, those along the likes of Mr. Foster or some that have never been mentioned before, we'd sure like to hear from you. We'd like to come into your home and talk to you about it, and the Retired Senior Volunteer Program office is helping us arrange our taping schedule. Their phone number is 352-8647, and we'd sure like to hear from you. We thank you for joining us today, David Dollar visiting in the home of Mr. J.K Foster. We thank you for joining us on Memories, and you all have a nice day.

David Dollar interviews J.K. Foster about driving mules, rabbit hunting, limited schooling, living with disabled siblings, and his Christian faith.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, natchitoches parish, mules, school, faith, disabilities

March 26, 2026

61. J.E. Stewart

Transcript

Jim Colley: Good morning. This is Jim Colley, and we're visiting this morning on the Memories Program with Mr. J.E. Stewart. We'll be back with him in just a few moments after this word from Peoples Bank & Trust, our sponsors.

Mr. Stewart, we're glad to welcome you to the Memories Program. We visited with you once before in your home and we're glad to be back.

J.E. Stewart: Well, thank you Jim. I'm glad to be with you today, even though it's raining down cats outside.

Jim Colley: It sure is. I remember some tales about rain around here, but I'm not sure we want to go into those. We were visiting right before the program began about high finance. Now, you've seen a lot of high finance around here in your years with the welfare department, I'm sure.

J.E. Stewart: Well, I've seen a lot of low finance and I think I'm one of the members of the low finance group. Anyway, I often think of three things, maybe more, but these stand out today that happened during the period of time I used to work with the state welfare program. I call it high finance. I recall an incident that happened years ago when I was working with the department. On about the middle of the morning, a man came into the office, excited, demanded to see me immediately. As soon as he was admitted to the office, he threw across my desk a soiled, sweaty, long leather belt that was rather fat. And as soon as it hit the desk, I noticed a few old crusty, salty, soiled, musty greenbacks rolled out off this belt. I looked at him in awe of myself. I said, "Where'd you get that?" He says, "I beat them to it." I says, "That's a money belt, isn't it?" He says, "Sure is." Well, I says, "What about it? Why are you give it to me?" "Well, it belongs to y'all. Y'all gave it to him. Now, he done dead and I beat the others to it." Well, I says, "Why did you bring it in?"

"Well, I didn't want them to get it. I knew they'd drink it up in wine."

Jim Colley: So he had saved that money for you?

J.E. Stewart: Yes. I thought a minute, collected my wits, still astonished. And I asked him a few questions and I found out that sure enough, the money did come from a certain person who had died and that apparently he had obtained the belt and had honestly brought it to the office completely intact. He didn't even know how much was in it, and I refused to count it. I asked him if he knew how much. He said, "I think it's well over 1,000."

Jim Colley: Didn't know how much it was?

J.E. Stewart: No. Anyway, I suggested that I couldn't touch it. The welfare didn't want it. It didn't belong to us, and since this man had a wife, he should return with it and give it to the wife and he and the wife should make plans for her to receive the benefit of it. He had told me that they'd take it away from her. I told him, "You help her out since you are sort of a leader in the community." And he did return and he kept an accurate record of it. Over 12 months later, he returned to the office and says, "I gave it to her at a rate of $100 a month. She got full benefit of every dime. Here's the record."

Jim Colley: That's a good story and it's amazing how responsible some of those folks can be when given a chance to. The second story you have goes by a good title.

J.E. Stewart: I call it the Haystack Bank. It so happened that during the period of work, I learned of this from an actual contact in the office after an old man had lost his year life savings. Seemingly, he didn't trust banks, he didn't trust people, but he did trust his own selection for depositing his money. And every time he would get his government checks, he would take them to the back of the parish where there was a big haystack and he diligently would hide the money there in some place that he had designed himself. He was always very careful to watch no one was falling or anything like that. And he regularly made this trip several times during the month to this haystack both to check on his money and to put a little more there or especially that that he didn't need. And I guess a considerable amount got there and everything was going along fine with him until his son-in-law moved back on the part of the farm that he lived on. The son-in-law noticed his father-in-law making regular trips to the back of the pasture, finally noticed that he was going into the haystack and was digging around there a little bit. So the story goes that he got his curiosity aroused about what in the world was happening at this haystack. So he selected a time when his father-in-law would not be around and he did his investigation. Well, of course, I'm sure you know what happened. Because when the old man went back to his haystack bank, someone done got all the money that he had saved all his life and he didn't know who in the world it was.

Jim Colley: It was like having somebody else who can sign on your account. They don't have the deposit slips.

J.E. Stewart: I talked to him about it, why he didn't use the banks, and of course his story was he didn't trust the bank and didn't trust anybody with his money. He'd been beating out too much money over his lifetime. I said, "Well, you lost it all, haven't you?" He shook his head, "I guess so."

Jim Colley: It was gone too. It's interesting that he had a suspicion about who it was. He knew it was his son-in-law. Couldn't do much about it.

J.E. Stewart: Well, the money was gone no matter what [inaudible 00:06:34] done. I've forgotten what happened.

Jim Colley: That third story about a depository is the-

J.E. Stewart: The Hen Nest Depository.

Jim Colley: Hen Nest. Okay.

J.E. Stewart: Well, this is a rather short story. It's not very long. Again, it was told to me by one of the members of the family, seemingly an old man who lived pretty far back out in the country, couldn't get to town very often and he didn't trust leaving his money in the house or keeping it on him. So he found a place that he thought was safe and he hid his money there. Well, this went on for a year or two and his kids were very faithful to him. They didn't question anything, but they knew that their daddy had a little money that he'd saved because he knew the type of man was. I think he had told them that when he passed on that he had burial money, but he never would tell them where and seemingly that he passed on ahead of time.

That is he couldn't tell them to... He didn't know just what time he was going to pass on. So he passed on and they came in. Finally, all of them got there. They talked about money for his burial and they wanted their daddy to have a pretty good burial, and they went to searching the house for it. Well, they liked to tore the house down, so the story goes, one of them said, trying to find that money. They never found it. And even went out around the house, under the house, in the cistern and all around the woodpile and even out to the barn. They never found that money. And they went ahead and buried him, paid up the money among themselves. But one of them was never satisfied. They knew that money was still there. And sure enough, one day one of them went to the hen house and under an old hen nest, there they found the money that their father had saved for his burial still intact. And as I understand it from them, they were all reimbursed for what little each had stood for the burial.

Jim Colley: That's quite a hen story.

J.E. Stewart: That's a hen story.

Jim Colley: And putting the hen money aside, nobody, I guess, would be very surprised to watch somebody go out and check the hens. So he had a good cover story.

J.E. Stewart: He certainly selected the right place. I don't think I'd have ever looked under a hen nest to find anything other than an egg.

Jim Colley: That's for sure. Mr. Stewart, we're going to take a break right now for Peoples Bank & Trust, but we'll be back in just a moment. This is Jim Colley on the Memories Program, and we're visiting with Mr. J.E. Stewart in his home on East Fifth Street. Mr. Stewart, we've been talking about the Haystack Bank and the Hen Nest Depository. It seems to me one of the reasons why folks didn't trust banks was the bad experience of the depression years. Where were you during the depression?

J.E. Stewart: I had just finished college and gone home hoping to get a job. That was in 1932. I was in the LaSalle Parish.

Jim Colley: What do you remember? Do you remember the Depression?

J.E. Stewart: Vividly. I like to starve to death myself. In fact, for business, I got a job teaching school at Paul in a two-room rural school, 15 miles from Jena. I had about 25 kids and Christmas come along. They didn't have anything in the world. They barely had food. I recall noticing their lunch consisted of cornbread, potatoes, and when hog-killing time came on, they had meat. Otherwise, none.

Jim Colley: That was a rough time to live. If you didn't grow your own, you might not have any food.

J.E. Stewart: Probably wouldn't have had any at that period of time. I believe the Red Cross did send in a carload of food there that some of those kids got flour for the first time. They thought it was key.

Jim Colley: We don't know much about those kind of hard times now.

J.E. Stewart: No. Those times led to the certain social legislation that has been passed and improved upon to where that the government can keep such conditions from coming into this country hopefully ever again.

Jim Colley: Those were such bad experiences that the government has worked very hard to stay away from those kinds of things again.

J.E. Stewart: Yes. I recall about 25 big strong men meeting at that schoolhouse one night protesting the fact that they couldn't get one day's work on one of the work programs that was being inaugurated. When those programs first started, they had a hard time with them. First, getting to those who needed it because they all needed it. Just wasn't enough to go around. Second, the organization and the trial and error that took place until they did get a fairly substantial program in about 1935 and '36.

Jim Colley: So people had to make due from 1932 to about 1935.

J.E. Stewart: With what little help they could get from the government and what they could scratch out themselves. And I understand in the cities, they were in bread lines. But we didn't have that in the country where I worked, but they worked for each other and helped support each other.

Jim Colley: You pretty much had to.

J.E. Stewart: Had to. It was the only way they could exist.

Jim Colley: Mr. Stewart, we've got just enough time for one more memory. We were talking during the break about the CCC camps. Was there one out close to Jena?

J.E. Stewart: Yeah, they had one about 35 miles between Jena and Rosefield. It was a rather large camp with a good bunch of boys. I recall there were some boys from this area over there. They have made good. They are leaders today.

Jim Colley: We appreciate visiting with you, Mr. Stewart. We always enjoy it and we'll be back to see you sometime. Thanks for visiting with us on Memories. We'd like to say a word to those who are listening to the show this morning that if you have some memories you would like to share with us, we sure would like to have you call us at Peoples Bank & Trust and give us your name and telephone number and we'll be in touch with you. On behalf of myself, Mr. Stewart, and Peoples Bank, we're glad to visit with you and we wish you well today.

Jim Colley interviews J.E. Stewart about working for the state welfare program, “High Finance”, “Haystack Bank”, “Hen Nest Depository”, and life during the Great Depression.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, state welfare program, great depression, natchitoches parish

March 19, 2026

60. J.C. Perot

Transcript

David Dollar: Good morning, this is David Dollar. We're glad you've joined us for Memories today. We're going to visit in the home of Mrs. J.C. Perot, and we'll be right back to begin our visit right after this message from Peoples Bank and Trust Company.

Hello once again. In case you're just joining us, this is David Dollar, visiting in the home of Miss J.C. Perot. Miss Perot, we thank you for having us in your home today. And why don't we start things off by you just telling us a little bit about yourself?

J.C. Perot: Well, I was born in the year of 1902, August 10th.

David Dollar: Okay.

J.C. Perot: I have a twin sister. And I have two other sisters is twins.

David Dollar: So, two sets of twins in your family, huh?

J.C. Perot: That's right.

David Dollar: Goodness, goodness gracious.

J.C. Perot: And there is six of us girls and four boys.

David Dollar: You were born here in Natchitoches?

J.C. Perot: In Ward nine.

David Dollar: What were your folks doing at that time?

J.C. Perot: Well, my daddy had a farm and had about 8 or 10 families that they'd work sharecrop.

David Dollar: Right, right. So just kind of general farming and-

J.C. Perot: And they’d till the land by mules.

David Dollar: Oh, I guess so, back then, huh? And if you had a lot of land that meant a whole lot of work for men and mules alike, I guess?

J.C. Perot: Very much so.

David Dollar: 10 kids in the family, that seems large to me now, but I guess for that time it was pretty much an average family.

J.C. Perot: Well, they lost one little boy at birth, but they raised the rest up. Course, my mama had to have help so my daddy had a woman off the place that cared for her. And to me, when I think about it right now, they just paid her $12.00 a month, and now it would take $12.00 a day, or better.

David Dollar: I bet it would, to get the work around the house done. What did you do around the house when you were growing up? Did you get to learn how to cook and sew, and things like that?

J.C. Perot: Oh, I tell you, when we got large enough, my mama got rid of the help after the babies was some size. And every fellow had his own job. Two of the girls would take care of the washing. And I helped with the milking and cooking. And-

David Dollar: It was a-

J.C. Perot: ... every day, everybody had they share to do the dishes.

David Dollar: Right.

J.C. Perot: Well, we got to where each girl would have a whole week. And we'd get the calendar down and-

David Dollar: Mark it off.

J.C. Perot: Each fellow knew when his time came.

David Dollar: Right. Was there any bargaining going on? If you really didn't want to wash dishes one night, would you pay one of your sisters or something? Or did they try to bribe you?

J.C. Perot: No, we just swapped time.

David Dollar: Yeah, I guess so. You mentioned something that was mighty interesting earlier, about not only the two sets of twins in your own family, but what was it you said about your grandpa? Share with us that story, if you don't mind.

J.C. Perot: Well, one Saturday morning the phone rang and they had called my daddy to tell him that his father and his step-mother was the parents of triplets.

David Dollar: So, getting that straight again, that just really blows my mind. While your father and mother had two sets of twins in the family, your grandfather remarried and was the father of a set of triplet boys. That is amazing, it really is. That's a story we ought to probably put in Ripley's Believe It or Not-

J.C. Perot: My daddy-

David Dollar: ... or something, I don't know-

J.C. Perot: ... had a sister that had twins and they were twin boys.

David Dollar: My goodness, y'all just had it in the blood somewhere-

J.C. Perot: But these was-

David Dollar: ... I guess-

J.C. Perot: ... twins on both sides of my mother and daddy's family.

David Dollar: I see. Well, I guess that's how it all came about, then. Let's talk about things you did a little bit later. Where did you go to school?

J.C. Perot: Well, we went to school at a one-room school at Starlight.

David Dollar: Where is Starlight?

J.C. Perot: That was just about a mile below where we lived.

David Dollar: And in relation to the parish and city as it is now, where is that? I've-

J.C. Perot: It's in-

David Dollar: .... never heard-

J.C. Perot: ... Ward nine.

David Dollar: Where is ward nine, again? I'm bad on-

J.C. Perot: Down-

David Dollar: ... these things-

J.C. Perot: ... Cane River.

David Dollar: Near Cloutierville and Derry?

J.C. Perot: Oh, no, no, no.

David Dollar: Not that far?

J.C. Perot: Do you know a [inaudible 00:04:45]?

David Dollar: Mm-hmm.

J.C. Perot: Well that's where I used to live.

David Dollar: Okay. Right-

J.C. Perot: About one mile from there.

David Dollar: I see, right around there. So y'all had a schoolhouse sort of near the house, then?

J.C. Perot: Pretty much.

David Dollar: Did you keep going there all the time or did you ever-

J.C. Perot: Well, we-

David Dollar: ... come into-

J.C. Perot: ... went-

David Dollar: ... town-

J.C. Perot: ... there for a few years. And then after that the school closed and they sent us by Natchez, to school. And from there, they got this transfer, that we had to cross the river and get on the transfer. And some time after that, there was so many that couldn't go on that. And the roads were bad so they gave us this boat that went up and down Cane River.

David Dollar: Wait, to go to school on? You had a school boat instead of a school bus, huh?

J.C. Perot: That's right.

David Dollar: How far did you ride the boat?

J.C. Perot: Well, it was about nine miles around the river-

David Dollar: Around the-

J.C. Perot: ... front-

David Dollar: ... bend-

J.C. Perot: ... and road. But I don't know how many miles-

David Dollar: Probably about-

J.C. Perot: ... it was by river-

David Dollar: ... two or three. I'll be.

J.C. Perot: It was pretty rough when the wind was high, sometimes.

David Dollar: I'll bet so. And so you rode the boat in, I guess, closer into Natchitoches, coming to school.

J.C. Perot: Right where the second bridge is, that's where we'd get off, right there. There wasn’t any bridge there, then. And then we'd walk to the elementary school at the college.

David Dollar: Well I'll be, that is something. Let me interrupt you right here, we need to take a short commercial break. David Dollar visiting with Ms. J.C. Perot, today. We'll be right back after this message from our sponsor, Peoples Bank and Trust Company.

Hello once again, in case you've just joined us, this is David Dollar. We're visiting on Memories this morning, in the home of Miss J.C. Perot. We've heard about Natchitoches' school boat that I sure didn't know about. I don't know if any other towns around here can boast of a school boat instead of a school bus or not. I don't know, but that sure was news to me.

Miss Perot, why don't we talk a little bit more about you growing up around Cane River. I know we talked a little bit before we turned this tape machine on. Why don't we talk a little bit more about the things that went on down the river and all?

J.C. Perot: Well, I remember the boats used to go up and down Cane River. When we'd hear them blowing, we'd run to see. And the other thing is that I remember was, my grandfather would go out to measure the high water, see how much it would come up.

David Dollar: So, this is hard, again, for me to understand because this is when Cane River was still a full-fledged river. It had the river boats going up and down it, and rising and falling water and all. So y'all lived, I guess, pretty close to the river, huh?

J.C. Perot: Right on it. Well, kind of far back. We had a big lawn out in front of our house.

David Dollar: But had the land right on the river and all.

J.C. Perot: Oh, yeah.

David Dollar: On that. So high water could be a pretty big problem to a farmer back then, I guess.

J.C. Perot: It took all the back land of my daddy's crops.

David Dollar: If it would flood, y'all just literally up a creek, huh, I guess?

J.C. Perot: It was kind of rough.

David Dollar: Bad news, I shouldn't be making jokes about it, I guess. That's true, my goodness. Tell me a little about the transportation you were talking about. That school boat really intrigues me, still. What about the roads and things. Did y'all have very many cars?

J.C. Perot: No, the-

David Dollar: Or wagons?

J.C. Perot: The cars are very scarce. And the way we'd go places, we'd have to go by buggy. And my daddy had two sets of horses. He'd drive one one day and he'd drive the other one the next day. Always, he'd let them rest.

David Dollar: He had them, huh? Do you remember the first car you got? All right, let me ask you this, before we get that, when was the river stuff that you remember? About what time was that?

J.C. Perot: That was in 1908.

David Dollar: 1908. I'm trying to remember my history about when cars came about. When was the first car that you remember?

J.C. Perot: Well my daddy had the first car in 1916.

David Dollar: 1916.

J.C. Perot: July the 4th, he was in a big parade in Natchitoches.

David Dollar: Oh, yeah?

J.C. Perot: July the 4th.

David Dollar: Did he take y'all riding in that parade, all the kids-

J.C. Perot: Oh-

David Dollar: ... got in-

J.C. Perot: ... yeah.

David Dollar: And y'all were in the 4th of July parade, huh?

J.C. Perot: Mr. Pullen was the man that taught my daddy how to drive. And we always enjoyed going into town and going to the Candy Kitchen and places.

David Dollar: I bet so. What was the Candy Kitchen?

J.C. Perot: Well, Mr. Lay had a Candy Kitchen. It just had all kinds of candy in there.

David Dollar: Where was it?

J.C. Perot: Well he had moved about a time or two. It was on Front Street.

David Dollar: Front Street. Well that's the first time I've heard about that. That's mighty interesting. I bet that was a favorite place to go.

J.C. Perot: My daddy made it pretty often because he liked that. He'd go to the picture show and he'd always have him some candy.

David Dollar: I bet so. We're just about out of time, Miss Perot. And we like to try to close our programs with what we call our closing memory. And I think you've got a pretty funny story to share with us today. Why don't you bring our program to a close by doing that for us.

J.C. Perot: Well, one day my daddy was going across the bridge. And he was driving pretty fast. And so the man-

David Dollar: Was this in his car, now?

J.C. Perot: No, uh-uh, he was driving in his buggy.

David Dollar: Before the car.

J.C. Perot: That was in buggy days.

David Dollar: All right.

J.C. Perot: And the man told him he was fined $10.00. He gave him a $20.00 bill, he said, "Well, you just better keep the other $10.00 because I'm going to come back just like I went."

David Dollar: I guess that might have been Natchitoches's first speeding ticket for driving a horse and buggy too fast on the bridge.

J.C. Perot: My daddy didn't tell us this, but I heard it, that's how I got it.

David Dollar: He couldn't tell your mama, huh? He didn't want to know where that money went.

J.C. Perot: Well, I didn’t remember just exactly. Well, he didn't worry about that.

David Dollar: I guess not. Well Miss Perot, we sure thank you for having us in your home and for sharing these memories. I learned all about school boats and candy stores, and everything else that I sure never heard about before around Natchitoches. We thank you for having us in your home and sharing that with us.

J.C. Perot: And thank you.

David Dollar: Thank you, ma'am. If any of you folks at home have some memories you'd like to share with us, or you know somebody who does, we'd like for you to get in touch with us. The Retired Senior Volunteer Program Office is helping keep our schedule straight and arranging taping schedules and all. They're number is 352-8647, and we wish you'd give them a call.

In closing, too, since the month of May has been designated as Older American Month by President Ford, we would like to salute and congratulate all the senior citizens of Natchitoches and Natchitoches Parish on the fine job you're doing just by being here. And we sure do appreciate you, we'd like to hear some memories from you. Thank you for joining us today, David Dollar and Miss J.C. Perot, we're glad you've joined us, and have a nice day.

David Dollar interviews J.C. Perot about growing up in a farming family, studying in a one-room schoolhouse, taking a boat to school, memories of the river boats, driving in the Fourth of July parade, and her father getting a speeding ticket in a horse and buggy.

Episode Tags: podcast, memories, oral history interview, natchitoches, river boat, farming, speeding ticket, horse and buggy

March 12, 2026

59. Isiah Jones pt. 2

Transcript

Dan Benuska: Today on Memories we are traveling back in time with Mr. Isaiah Jones after this message from Peoples Bank, our sponsor.

Mr. Jones, in the last Memories program, we talked about your experience with mules and with blacksmithing, and we would like to talk a little more about that on Memories.

Mr. Jones, for our Memories listener, was born on August 15th, 1900 on Upper Cane River.

On the last Memories program, Mr. Jones, you told us that you really apprenticed on E.O. Payne's place under Philip “Jack” Hart. But there was a story that you told me about a blacksmith shop in Natchitoches. Can you tell us about that?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah. That was a blacksmith shop here, Natchitoches right across from Natchitoches Motor Company. And the old Parson Sam Williams, there may be some people around you knew him and he was a blacksmith dad. Just a little old corner, I call it. Right where the Natchitoches Motor Company has that used car lot. And we occasionally would come to town, we boys.

Dan Benuska: And how old were you then?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: I'd say about possibly 12. Possibly 10 or 12 years old.

Dan Benuska: This is back in 1910 or 1912?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Long about that time, about 1910 or '12. And I used to come by there and catch his old bellows and blow it for him. They were what we called a bellows then. That's what they made the fire burning by pumping that old bellows. Now we have what we call the forges, which is some of them now operate by electric.

Dan Benuska: Well, that first blacksmith that you met in town here, you told me that he used to spend several hours working on plow points and didn't make a lot of money.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah. He have told me that he spend as much as a couple of hours on a plow point that he was only getting 15 cents to fix that plow point. But if it taking him a couple hours to fix it, why he stayed with it until he fixed it. And were only getting 15 cents for that point. Now, those same point that we wouldn't have there's much to do to it, now we get a dollar and a half for that job, which then he got 15 cents.

Dan Benuska: For two hours work?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Yeah.

Dan Benuska: Times have changed.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Yeah. That's the change in times.

Dan Benuska: So that memory, when you were 11 or 12 years old of watching a blacksmith work sort of stuck with you. Then you went back and you worked on the farm for a period of time, and you told me that you used to know how to talk to mules. Tell me about talking to mules.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah. You know, we all on the farm, we had a team. If you cared anything about your team naturally you wanted your team to be something better than the other fellows. And some of those mules you could get to plowing and you wouldn't need your line or nothing to guide him with. All you'd have to do is talk to him. If he were walking too close to your cotton or corn or whatever you were cultivating, all you'd had to say, "Haw." And he'd get down from there and get over to the left. And if he wasn't close enough, all you had to say, "Gee" over there. And then he would get up a little close and keep on going. Well, when you got one trained like that, that was something extra. You could always brag on what your mule could do. So that was quite a treat when a man could learn his mule how to retreat to his-

Dan Benuska: Well, how many different words did you use to move that mule? Gee and haw you said.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Gee and haw.

Dan Benuska: Those two words.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: You see, he was going along and if he were walking two far to the right, you'd just say "Haw" and he would get over to the left. And if he were two far to the left all you had to holler at him "Gee." And he'd come back over there to his right. You see that was just only two ways for him to go. He's going straight and all you had to do is tell him “Haw” if you want him to go left, and if you want him to go right, just tell him “Gee.” And he would go to the right.

Dan Benuska: So after you plowed and after you learned to talk to the mules, you worked for Mr. E.O. Payne, and Jack Hart. How did you get into the blacksmithing business itself? Because there was a period of time from when you were 17 ‘til what, about 25 years old when you really got into blacksmithing?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: That's right. See, I worked around in those plantation shops as I formerly said until I became grown and got married and went to work, you know, for myself and so forth. And in the hour during little where I did, I'd work in the farm until July when we laid by our crops we called it. And then I'd come on over to town riding a pony over to town and get a job over in town, you know, making some cash. So I was working for Mr. Bob Henry in 1925 in the month of July. And Mr. Boyd heard of me being and knowing something about blacksmithing. So he came over on the job and asked about going over to the shop, helping him.

Dan Benuska: Where was the shop then?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: The shop then was just in front of the new courthouse, then what we call the Keegan Building. That's where he had a blacksmith shop in that time.

Dan Benuska: Well, how long did you work at that place?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Well now, we worked at that particular place until 1927. And in 1927, right where the TV cable company is located, that's where Mr. Boyd built the shop there, on Fourth Street.

Dan Benuska: And now your place is on what street?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: And now my place is on Sabine Alley. Now I'll tell you this, to come back to work with Mr. Boyd. So I stayed with Mr. Boyd until his death and one of his son's death and so forth. And then his son-in-law become in possession of that Boyd shop. Mr. Smith, Cardia Smith used to be a deputy sheriff here. Well, after length of time he decided that he was going to get out of that so he did. And then I bought the Boyd shop out. I bought that shop out and moved it over on Sabine Alley where it's located now.

Dan Benuska: Well, let me interrupt you at that point and let's have a message from Peoples Bank, our sponsor. Again, this is Dan Benuska, and we are talking with Mr. Isaiah Jones on Memories about blacksmithing and about mules. Mr. Jones, I want you to talk to me about a mule named Dixie.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah. That's a little mule I imagine there's someone around Natchitoches, possibly know as little Dixie that Mr. Aarons up here, Julius Aarons and son, they used to work that little mule to a little single wagon delivering here in Natchitoches.

Dan Benuska: What year was this?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: That ought to been about around '30, I would say around '30. I don't have any record of those memory, but however, a rough guess I would was set out around 1930, longer than that. And that mule I used to shoe that mule for Mr. Aarons and them. And they'd jig around on the streets all day after they paved these streets here. They paved these streets here in 1927. Well, that mule would wear those shoes out pretty fast. And I always, we bought the shoes up there on Mr. Aarons place. He carried assortment of shoes and I would go up there, you know, and buy them by the 100lb kegs. So one day I went up there get me some shoes. So Mr. Aaron, that is the old man, he's gone, passed away. Well, he would ask me, he says, "What about my mule?" Says, every time I look around my mule got to go get him some shoes. And I told him, I said, "Well, I've been thinking about that. I couldn't understand that myself," I said. "Because I'd come up here and buy the shoes from you, take them to the shop and put them on your mule. And still that mule would wear them out."

Dan Benuska: You said that mule was a pretty smart mule.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh, he was very smart. That mule could bring the wagon onto to the shop without a driver. And whenever that mule, they were making delivery and that mule had a piece of shoe, he needed a shoe fit, that mule you couldn't hardly whoop him by the shop. He'd just be bending the shaft trying to come on into the shop.

Dan Benuska: He knew you enough that he wanted you to take care of his shoes?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah. He knew where to go to get his feet fixed up.

Dan Benuska: Another story you told me about is a pony that you used to shoe that belonged to one of the people over here at KNOC. Can you tell me about that story?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah, that's Mr. Fletcher. I knew his daddy when he was a little old boy, I don't guess had started school yet. So anyway, he had a little pony that he would sometime get on the pony and ride it down to the shop and I'd put a couple of shoes on it for him. They hardly ever shod it more than on the front feets of that little pony of his. However, I shod this little pony a different time. And now I happen to meet him, not too long ago, and he knew me and he recognized me. And he asked me, was I Mr. Jones? I told him, yeah. He said, "Well, you remember you used to shod my little pony I used to ride?" I told him, "Sure I do. Yeah, I remember that well."

Dan Benuska: We have time for one more memory. Could you tell us any advice that your father used to give you? You mentioned something about licking the calf over.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Oh yeah, yeah. Those elderly people back there when I were a youngster, you know, when they tell you to do a job a way, they would tell you and say, "Now you better do it right, because if you don't do it right, you're going to have lick your calf over." Well, that's what they meant, that if it wasn't did like they wanted it did, they was going to send you back to do it over again. And naturally, I didn't like going back over it. And I tried to do it right first time. And I was very fortunate.

Dan Benuska: Your father told you about if you got paid or not got paid?

Mr. Isaiah Jones: That's right. And he'd always tell us. He say, "Now, if someone asks you to do something and you could do it, say whether you're getting paid or not pay", he say, "You do it your best." He said, "Do it right."

Dan Benuska: That's a good note to end on.

Mr. Isaiah Jones: Yeah.

Dan Benuska: Mr. Jones, I've enjoyed having you again on Memories. And I have a personal favor to ask of all you that are listening to Memories. If you like Memories, call the people at Peoples Bank. Or better yet, stop by and talk to them personally.

If you're over 60 and you have some memories you'd like to share with your friends in Natchitoches, call Peoples Bank at 352-6404 or 352-8343. You can also call direct to KNOC, 352-9596 or the Retired Senior Volunteer Office, RSVP, 352-8647.

In a follow-up interview conducted by Dan Benuska, Isiah Jones continues his discussion on blacksmithing and working with mules, buying his own shop, and life advice from his father.

Episode Tags: natchitoches parish, memories, podcast, oral history interview, blacksmithing, mules

March 5, 2026

58. Isiah Jones pt. 1

Transcript

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Today we travel back in time with Mr. Isiah Jones, a well-known blacksmith in Natchitoches, after this message from Peoples Bank, our sponsor. Mr. Jones?

Isiah Jones: Yeah.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, and about your family.

Isiah Jones: Well, I'm about, I would say about three miles from my birthplace up Cane River.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): What year were you born?

Isiah Jones: I was born in the year of 1900, August 15.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): How many people were in your family and what'd your daddy do?

Isiah Jones: My daddy was a farmer. He reared me up on the farm. There was a family of us, and to begin with, there was about 13 of us in the family. Because some of them passed away in their youth before I even knew them, but I'd just hear them talking about them. But anyway, there were 13 of us, and now there's only three. One brother and two sisters living. That's myself and two sisters in Shreveport.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Before I ask you some of your early experiences with blacksmith and how you got into blacksmithing, I've got a question to ask you about your name. Now, I noticed that your name is spelled I-S-I-A-H. It's not spelled the same way as Isaiah the prophet. Can you tell me about that?

Isiah Jones: Well, now, when I began going to school, then we only had three months of school. And Reverend G.G. Goldston, Methodist minister here, I was going to school to him and I was spelling my name I-S-A-I-A-H J-O-N-E-S. And he taught me, he said, "Now listen, you are not the prophet Isaiah," and he said, "You leave one of those A's out in your name." So, right there I started leaving one of those A's out, and it was quite a while before I could get used to leaving that A out, because I knew there were two A's in Isaiah in the Bible.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): So, that reminded you that you were just a little bit less than Isaiah the prophet.

Isiah Jones: [inaudible 00:02:22] Isaiah the prophet.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): That's a good story.

Isiah Jones: So, that's the way... He was the one who taught me to leave that A out of my name.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Well, tell me this. How did you get interested in blacksmithing, and about your early move towards blacksmithing?

Isiah Jones: Well, now, I'd say it was about 1916... Well, somewhere along 1916 down on [inaudible 00:02:49] Payne's place where I were living. Well, there was a man there by the name of, we called him Jack Hart, but his name was Philip, but everybody called him Jack Hart. Well, he was a blacksmith, and he would come there and do the farm work, and I started to go in in the shop where he was and voluntarily helping him. Until eventually I got after him by letting me beat some of those plows, and which he did.

And from that on, I started beating those plows, and he had a job going from one farm to another. Every farm practically had his own blacksmith shop, but very few had their blacksmith. So, if you were a blacksmith, you could go from plantation to plantation, doing it that way.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): How were you traveling from plantation to plantation?

Isiah Jones: Horseback. Sometimes in the buggy.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): You didn't have to carry your tools as you went?

Isiah Jones: No, no. You see, every shop had its tools, you see? Had its furnish and its tools. All you had to do... Now, mostly when you got used to using a hammer to hammer with, naturally you carried your hammer. Because when you got used to one hammer, the next hammer you pick up, maybe it didn't suit you. It was either too light or either too heavy. And then, you know, that hammer would wear on the side to where it'd be tilt over a certain way from hammering with it. And so, naturally we would carry our own hammers when we'd go to these different places.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): What kind of work were you mostly doing then in 1916, '17? What was the main work that a blacksmith would do?

Isiah Jones: Well, now, the main work was... See, we were beating out hoes. We was beating out plow points and beating out what we call sweeps.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): What are sweeps?

Isiah Jones: A sweep, now, that's a plow point that you use after you get your crop planted and get your crop growing. See, that was a cultivating tool. Well, then they had a double shovel, this two-pronged outfit that carried two of those sweeps, one on each side, and that's what you went around your plants with. They call that cultivating. Now, those plow points, well, naturally you broke your land up. You know, your land's been laying out all winter and packed down hard. Well, that plow point, it'd get down there and throw that bed up there for you.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): How frequently did a plow point have to be sharpened?

Isiah Jones: Well, now, that depends somewhat on what the soil you were in. Now, if you were in the sand and dirts, well, that plow point would possibly cut good for about three or four days. And if you were in what we call the "mix lane", it would maybe stay sharp there cutting for a week or 10 days.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): So, that was a very busy bit of work, blacksmithing.

Isiah Jones: Very busy. You know, because every plantation no doubt I'll say had a dozen or more tenant farmers. Well, each one had his tools, you see? Well, when you keep up tools for as much as 10 or 12 different families, that gives you quite a bit of work.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Let's break for a moment for a message from Peoples Bank, our sponsor, and then we'll come back and talk a little more about mules. Again, this is Dan Bonuska on Memories, and we are talking with Mr. Isiah Jones about his experiences in blacksmithing. I want you to talk to me about mules. I understand that you shoed a lot of mules in your days.

Isiah Jones: Well, I have. I've shod quite a few, and I'll say mules of all type. I used to keep up the team for the farm over at the Normal college, which it was a Normal college then. It wasn't Northwestern as today. It was the Normal college, and they had a farm over there, and they had some big heavy mules over there. I'd tell them fellas that those mules was overfed and underweight, and I'd wrestle with those mules out there, and oh, I'd have a time.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Can you remember, you told me a story about how you shoot an outlaw mule by the name of Jim?

Isiah Jones: Jim.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Tell me about that.

Isiah Jones: Well, that was... Mr. C.S. Royston was the city's street foreman at that time. Well, then they were sweeping these streets by brooms, and they had a two-wheeled cart, which I and Mr. Boyd built that cart for the city. And they got a mule they called Jim. He was a gray mule. And he told me, he says, "Now, Isiah, see now, old Jim, we bought him for an outlaw," and says, "We're going to have to have him shod on these streets." And he said, "When I do have him shod," he says, "I'm going to send a couple of men to the shop to help you with him." And I said, "Oh, okay." But when he did send the mule, I guess it was a few weeks after that, well, he didn't think about sending no one, because that driver, he just brought the mule and tied him. And he went on downtown as usual, waited until I get him shod. So, when I tried to get up to old Jim, old Jim would raise his head and snort, back up off of me. And I had a chain hanging up in the joists up there that I tied him to, and I had old Jim tied down. I kept fooling with him until I got to put my hand on his head, and I went to patting him and rubbing him, patting him and rubbing him.

And when I run my hand down his leg to pick up his feet, he'd drop down on his knee, and I'd keep my hand on his shoulder petting him, and keep on... And I got that feet up. When I got it up, I'd taken my hammer out my box and I began to beat on his feet as though I were nailing on him. And I'd put it down for a few seconds, then I'd pick it up again, do the same thing, knock on it. And then after he began to take that, I went on to my forge and I went on to setting my shoes. So, I set those two shoes and got them nailed on those front feet. And then I began to say, "Now, when I get back there on them two back there, there ain't going to be [inaudible 00:09:35] that it's here." I said, "I don't know how he's going to come out." However, I went on and patted him all over his back until I got him to where I could get back on his hip, and I braced myself against his hip and I run my hand down and catch his foot. And when I did, he just tried to tear my arm off. He kicked with all power, and he had a good blinder bridle on him. He could only see in front of him. And I reached down and got my old 18-inch rash, and I'd taken the rough side of it with both hands and come up under his belly with all I could give him. And when I did, he reared up between the joists up there, and fortunately enough, when he did come down, I grabbed him in his bit. And when I snatched him, he sat down and I kicked him in the side and scowled at him, and he jumped up straight and stuck his tail between his legs and he began to quiver. And when he went to quiver, I went on back there and grabbed that leg like I was going to tear it off. And I got it up across my hip, and I held it there, and then I said, "Uh-huh, I've got you."

So, then I went on and set my two shoes up to them two hind feet. And I went on back there and went through the same process, and every time I'd go to him and raise my voice, he'd start to trembling, the mule. And so, I got those two shoes back there on him.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): He learned who was boss.

Isiah Jones: Yeah. And every after, when that mule would come to the shop, all I had to do was raise my voice and old Jim would, he'd get in attention, get the feets together, and I never did have any more trouble out of him. He was just about one of the best animals I had to shoe.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): Well, Mr. Jones, I feel that we've only touched the surface of the blacksmithing business, and we're going to have to come back again on Memories. And I want to thank you now for this time that we've spent, and I want you to promise to be back on Memories again.

Isiah Jones: I would be glad to.

Dan Bonuska (Interviewer): We would like to close each Memories program with information that might be of value, particularly to the senior citizens. Do you know that you have an opportunity if you're 60 years of age or older? RSVP, the Retired Senior Volunteer Program, tries to match the abilities and interests of older persons with community needs. If you can spare a morning or an afternoon a week, why not consider volunteering your services? Call Catherine Dollar at 352-8647. When you spread a little happiness, it rubs off on you. If you have any further questions about this matter, talk to the folks at Peoples Bank. They'll be glad to help you out. I have a personal favor to ask of you. If you like Memories, call the people at Peoples Bank, or better yet, stop by and talk to them personally. If you're over 60 and you have some memories you'd like to share with your friends in Natchitoches, call Peoples Bank, 352-6404, or 352-8343, or call direct to KNOC, 352-9596, or the Retired Senior Volunteer office, 352-8647.

Dan Benuska interviews Isiah Jones about growing up in a farming family, why his name is spelled differently, becoming a blacksmith, sharpening plow points, and shoeing an outlaw mule.

Episode Tags: natchitoches parish, memories, podcast, oral history interview, farming, blacksmithing

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